New Tractor Buyer - Where to Start?

[hks003]

Can’t say I blame your grandfather! I still haven’t had an automatic transmission I like and rarely use the air at all so why pay for it.

If you have seen the problems and cost of emissions on my trucks you would understand the reluctance to want it on my tractor. By the way talk to those who don’t want it in a few years, remember it’s all new right now but the question is what is going to happen down the line that is in question.

I agree. Some sort of emissions control started showing up on diesel trucks around 09 if I'm not mistaken. My grandfather had a dodge that was in the shop 3-4 times in less than a year, all emissions control related. He got rid of it after that. Were all 09 dodges in the shop that much? I doubt it. Are all DPF tractors going to have problems? Doubt it. But in either case, if you're one of the unlucky few that gets a problem child, you're either going to be fighting it forever or lose your butt trading it in on something else. Personally, I can't afford to go trade stuff in at a loss until I find one that doesn't break, so I chose to go pre tier IV.

 

[christiansok]

No way would I consider a tractor without a cab in Stevens Point unless it was an old beater that cost only a couple thousand dollars. I would recommend a Kioti ck 3510se, or 4010se, with a cab and hydrostatic transmission.

Don稚 be afraid of a DPF, either. Most of the posters that are negative don稚 have any experience and never owned one.

Sort of like my grandfather who would never own a car with an automatic transmission or air conditioning.

I have no worries about the DPF really. I have a newer diesel with those kind of emission features so it's something I'm already dealing with and so far it is a non-issue.

Why so adamant on a cab though? The cold weather? I've never had any issue working out in the cold on machines clearing snow whether it's plowing on an ATV or using a walk behind snowblower. My driveway isn't very long so it won't be that long of an ordeal to be outside clearing snow. The reasons I'm not considering one is the added cost plus the height. The Kioti CK3510 with a cab like you mentioned is just shy of 92" tall and I have standard height 84" garage doors.

 

[rScotty]

I feel sort of the same way about cabs. Yes, there are miserable winter days when I couldn't be dragged onto a tractor....but one way to deal with that is to do something else & wait for better weather.
To balance that out, there are many more nice weather days in the year than bad ones, and most work is more enjoyable in the open air.
I can put up with a little discomfort to get a lot of pleasure.

Here's a thought that comes from your more detailed description of the place. With that much acreage and the way things grow up there, there is no reason to limit your choice of tractors to the compacts. Except for lawn mowing, anything a compact tractor can do can be done just as easily with a larger one. It may surprise you just how much good used tractor you can buy for a reasonable price once you start to look at the utility sizes and are looking at good used equipment.
rScotty

 

[christiansok]

Here's a thought that comes from your more detailed description of the place. With that much acreage and the way things grow up there, there is no reason to limit your choice of tractors to the compacts. Except for lawn mowing, anything a compact tractor can do can be done just as easily with a larger one. It may surprise you just how much good used tractor you can buy for a reasonable price once you start to look at the utility sizes and are looking at good used equipment.
rScotty

I had this same thought when I first created the thread but seeing the overwhelming response was revolving around new tractors I just followed suit. I have nothing against older and used. I can do a fair bit of work myself but like I said in the original post I just don't want there to be work/adjustment/whatever to be done every single time I'm using the thing.

If it is reliable and not too big (width is a big part with existing trails) I'm not opposed to it. I think it is probably easier to make recommendations of new machines because your pool of choices is so much smaller. Opening up the year range 20-30 years just increased the pool of tractors that might fit the bill 10 fold. I have primarily been searching used and looking at utility probably more than compact but the sheer number of different types/models on the used market for that big year range is daunting.

Edit - I should mention what I mean by work being done every time I use it is not regular machine maintenance. I mean more chasing issues with a carb or something like that where you're always troubleshooting some issue to get it to run.

 

[airbiscuit]

Kind of in a radius around you, the following dealers would be worth a visit to look, try and learn:

Swiderski Equipment/ - Wausau-Waupaca-Mosinee - New Holland, Kioti, Massey Ferguson
Swiderski Power - Appleton New Holland Yanmar
Riesterer & Schell - Stevens Point John Deere
Service Motor - Stevens Point - Case IH, Kubota
Miller Tractors - Plover - LS

Any of those brands are good - I like Yanmar, Kubota and Kioti

Multiple visits, looking and trying will help you know what feels right. You will learn something new every time.

 

[rScotty]

I had this same thought when I first created the thread but seeing the overwhelming response was revolving around new tractors I just followed suit. I have nothing against older and used. I can do a fair bit of work myself but like I said in the original post I just don't want there to be work/adjustment/whatever to be done every single time I'm using the thing.

If it is reliable and not too big (width is a big part with existing trails) I'm not opposed to it. I think it is probably easier to make recommendations of new machines because your pool of choices is so much smaller. Opening up the year range 20-30 years just increased the pool of tractors that might fit the bill 10 fold. I have primarily been searching used and looking at utility probably more than compact but the sheer number of different types/models on the used market for that big year range is daunting.

Edit - I should mention what I mean by work being done every time I use it is not regular machine maintenance. I mean more chasing issues with a carb or something like that where you're always troubleshooting some issue to get it to run.

Of course. I agree with all of that. Part of the reason that TBN is oriented toward new tractors is advertising of course, plus the mechanical skills that made used machinery popular at one time have declined in today's new tractor buying public.
But tractors were made to be reliable. It's what they are all about... and they were that way even more so 20/30 years ago. Excepting pollution controls, there have been few if any mechanical innovations of any advantage to the tractor owner in the last 30 years. HST transmissions are more common today, but you can find it on older ones too. Not 30 years ago, but plenty in the 10 to 20 year old time frame. And the alternative transmission - the powershift/power-reversing transmission - has been well worked out for many years and is nearly as convenient for loader work. All other mechanical systems that I can think of on older machines were simpler, more accessible, and less prove to sudden failure (non-computer) than on today's tractors.

I am NOT saying to gon out deliberately looking for an older used tractor. Doing that can be a time waster far more so than money saved. I think your time is better spent educating yourself and reducing the number of tractors you are comparing - and the best way to do that is to look at new.

But while you are looking, if you do run across a very well-cared for older tractor you should give it a look. They really were and still are excellent machines even by today's standards. A 20 year old machine with a few thousand well maintained hours on it is worth a close look. It all depends on condition. You sound to me like you are only interested in the best condition, as am I.

Reliability wise, it's my opinion that a good used one from that era should match or exceed a new machine.
And all that we are saying here definitely includes compact and utility sizes from 20 to 30 years ago. They were excellent machines. I don't see that the new ones are all that much better. Maybe the opposite because of modern computer and emission complexity.

BTW, unlike cars which are usually sold by model year, tractor's are often manufactured in single model runs and then warehoused to be sold over the retail life of the model. A tractor's age starts when it is sold; not when it is manufactured. So it is entirely possible to buy a new tractor that was manufactured several years before.
That is why serial number rather than model year is how parts are sold.
Enjoy the quest,
rScotty

 

[christiansok]

I am NOT saying to gon out deliberately looking for an older used tractor. Doing that can be a time waster far more so than money saved. I think your time is better spent educating yourself and reducing the number of tractors you are comparing - and the best way to do that is to look at new.

But while you are looking, if you do run across a very well-cared for older tractor you should give it a look. They really were and still are excellent machines even by today's standards. A 20 year old machine with a few thousand well maintained hours on it is worth a close look. It all depends on condition. You sound to me like you are only interested in the best condition, as am I.

rScotty

Any suggestions on older utility tractor families that would be good ones to look at? I have kind of familiarized myself with the newer model tractors and their family numberings but find when searching older stuff I am basically stuck looking up every single model I come across on Tractor Data to become acquainted with its size and horsepower. If there were some general tractor families of the smaller utility tractors that are good new tractor alternatives that would at least help narrow things down or give something to look for in the sea of used tractors.

 

[christiansok]

Kind of in a radius around you, the following dealers would be worth a visit to look, try and learn:

Swiderski Equipment/ - Wausau-Waupaca-Mosinee - New Holland, Kioti, Massey Ferguson
Swiderski Power - Appleton New Holland Yanmar
Riesterer & Schell - Stevens Point John Deere
Service Motor - Stevens Point - Case IH, Kubota
Miller Tractors - Plover - LS

Any of those brands are good - I like Yanmar, Kubota and Kioti

Multiple visits, looking and trying will help you know what feels right. You will learn something new every time.

Thanks, that is a comprehensive list and helpful because some of the OEM website's "Find a Dealer" features have been hit or miss.

I would say looking at new (on paper without any sort of seat time) the Kioti has definitely caught my interest. I like the price, loader capacities, size and the two pedal HST setup.

 

[finn1]

I have always had old cars, trucks and equipment around, and they always, without exception, take more routine maintenance and unscheduled repairs than newer machines, plus, most of the older equipment is 2wd, which is pretty much obsolete for small equipment.

Things like tires, hoses, fluid seeps and leaks, switches, valves, and brakes all wear out with time. At some point the equipment becomes the project, not the tool to complete the project.

As to the cab, until you have one, you don’t know what you are missing. I am about 250 miles north of you, and we do get considerably more snow to deal with, but, on the other hand, you don’t have a big lake to moderate the winter temperatures. I would rather have a new tractor with a cab and little or no unscheduled maintenance for the next dozen years, parked outdoors with, perhaps a block heater, than an older open station tractor that I freeze my butt off and fight insects in the spring and summer, plus have to constantly maintain.

I have done it both ways....

 

[rScotty]

Any suggestions on older utility tractor families that would be good ones to look at? I have kind of familiarized myself with the newer model tractors and their family numberings but find when searching older stuff I am basically stuck looking up every single model I come across on Tractor Data to become acquainted with its size and horsepower. If there were some general tractor families of the smaller utility tractors that are good new tractor alternatives that would at least help narrow things down or give something to look for in the sea of used tractors.

I think you'll learn them in time, but there are some tricks. First of all, tractors usually are upgraded but stay within a basic series that is designated by the first letter of the model designation. That is often followed by the next two numbers which gives you the hp and then another one or two numbers to give you an idea of the transmission or sometimes the level of convenience features.

As an example, look at Jeff's Kubota - which I think is an L3560.
The L indicates the basic series - it could have been less heavy duty and been a "B" or more heavy and been an "M". There are always a number of HP choices and that is generally the first two numbers. His is 35 hp. The "60" is a higher level of convenience and transmission upgrades from say an L3510 - which I don't know, but would guess would then be a manual transmission rather than Jeffs "60" which is the HST+.
BTW, that HST+ is really nifty as it gives a high and low rear end speed with a lever on the steering wheel. Doubles the number of gears.

Then when you go to Tractor Data to look up Jeffs L3560, take a look at the upper right and you will see that you can click on "previous models" or sometimes "previous series". Using that feature, it is pretty easy to follow the evolution of Jeff's L3560 all the way back to 1990.

The world is full of good tractors made to be as good as they possibly can make them. John Deere, Kubota, Kioti, Massey, New Holland....probably I'm forgetting someone.... Yanmar of course. I'd say that everyone makes at least one nice model but those would be a good place to start. Stay with 4wd, a loader, power steering, and some remote hydraulic outlets.

Yanmar is last place above because although they are argueably amoung the best technically - they might even be the best - they also have a long history of not supporting their dealerships as well as the others.

Then there are about another ten makes that are less popular, but still good hard working machines. They are less popular mainly because of support.

The first question I ask the sales manager at the dealership is if he knows of any real creampuff that he may be taking in on trade in the next month. Those generally get resold before making it to the lot, and that is the level of used machine that interests me.
rScotty