New Tractor Guidance

EFR2441 · Sep 19, 2005

I am in the market for a new tractor for around the house. The tractor will primarily be used for hauling timber from the woods, small chores around the house, as well as snow removal from a 700+ ft. driveway. I have 105 acres of mostly hardwoods that I cut 15-20 chord from a year. The land is mostly rolling hills that has numerous skidder roads running through it. The last two years I borrowed my fathers Ford 1320. It worked well and got the job done, but it was just too small; low ground clearance, and I could only pull out a single tree if it was over 18" thick. I would like to put a Farmi or Fransgard winch on a 40+/- horsepower 4wd tractor. I don't want too big of a tractor, for I already have a full size backhoe and I want to be able to go over the lawn occasionally without it sinking in (like the backhoe). I have looked at the JD 990 and liked it a lot. The JD 3020 series had too little ground clearance I felt and the 4020 seemed a little larger than I needed. I am partial to JD, but I am looking at and open to Kubota and NH as well. My question to the experienced on this site is; Am I on the right track? Will a 40+/-hp 4wd pull three or four good sized trees (12-20" X full length) trees? This tractor will never see a back hoe or baler, but maybe a brush hog, definitely a skidding winch of some sort, york rake and grader blade, snow plow etc. Thanks in advance for any help.

Varmintmist · Sep 20, 2005

A 990 should do the job. You might want to think about tires. If you are doing TSM (timber stand managment) the R4's float a little better than the AGs will. The AGs have better traction but will rip and tear more.

If you put 4-40' trees 20" around behind it you better be on the flat or down hill and hope they dont roll off to the side, they will take you with them. I really think that that is asking to much for a CUT, take 2 trips, its part of the fun.... errr.... job.

I have about 1/2 your property in hardwood and do the same thing with a 3510 Mahindra. One of the reasons I went with the Mahindra was for the weight for skidding. You might want to look at the Mahindra 4110, 40hp or even the 3510, 35 hp. More weight and bang for your buck, more feaures than the 90's Deere's.

I dont use a winch, I skid with chains or cut in the woods depending on where the trees are. I have been liking cutting to about 7-8 foot and loading the carryall and hauling them out. Less dirt to run the chainsaw though, less damage to my trails, less damage to the trees along the corners of the trails. If I have a decent opening, I will haul the trailer back and cut to length in the woods.

shvl73 · Sep 20, 2005

The R-4's might come with a higher ply rating for less chance of flats in the woods vs. the R-1 ag tires. I'm not 100% positive, just throwing the idea out there.

Soundguy · Sep 20, 2005

Look at the NH TC 4X /d/da series... hydro, DO get 4wd.. and watch about loading that will make you flip. Look into weights to lower your center of gravity.. and help anchor you with the winch.. but that you can take off when not needed.. I.e. frame weights... etc...

Soundguy

Maka · Sep 20, 2005

Hi EFR,

I would like to mention a Montana 4340 with Tajfun log winch. The Tajfun (pronounced Typhoon) is awesome and the 4 ton winch on the Montana 4340 is a great combination.

I have several people who use this exact combination as we are in heavy timber country and it works beautiful. The tractor and winch combo will easily handle multiple large trees with ease.

Here are some pictures Montana 4340 with 4 ton Tajfun winch I have posted months ago with that setup. I prefer the Tajfun over any brand log winch and if you post in the implements section there are many users of Tajfun here.

Here is the Tajfun website Tajfun

Hope this is of help.

Thanks,
Maka

rockyridgefarm · Sep 20, 2005

I'd like the Deere 4x20. The R1s are 6 ply, and whatever you go with, you could go foam filled to get planty of weight to the ground, and no flats. The polymer hood and fenders will take brutal punishment without even wincing. You'd be hard pressed to find a more robust package.

That said, there are lotsa fine machines on the market. Just be sure you get with a dealer you like, and read up on BobSkurkas post on comparing apples to apples on specs, so you can be sure that what you get is what you expect.

EFR2441 · Sep 20, 2005

Thanks to everyone for your input. I've been checking this site a couple times a weeks since I found it. I will be making a decision before December on a new tractor, but I've got some leg work to do before then. I appreciate all the information that is put out here. I had never even heard of the Tajfun winch before Maka mentioned it. I looked it up and his pictures. Thanks. Erik.

Dargo · Sep 21, 2005

Do you know if any manufacturer posts what metal they use in their tractors? People get hung up on the weight of a tractor issue, but there most certainly is a big difference in metal strengths. Since I am into metal work and welding quite a bit, I can buy a lot more "weight" of low carbon recycled (lower quality control) steel than high strength first run steel. If you want a good example of high weight, poor strength steel, go buy a "heavy" vice or something similar at Harbor Freight. Not all steel is created equal. Besides, it is nice to be able to add weight when needed to a strong frame, and take it off when not needed.

Varmintmist · Sep 21, 2005

Not all plastic is created equal either /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

He asked about skidding. You need weight for skidding. You need a lot of weight to skid a lot of logs. If you dont get hung up on weight before you drag logs, you will get hung up by weight while skidding.

If you want to buy wheel weights, and frame weights, and suitcase weights for the front and take your loader off every time you skid, by all means buy a light tractor.

Who is to say that good steel is going into the big three tractors in the first place /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Odds are good that they are getting their bulk steel at the same place in this global economy. There is less weight, therfore there is just as good, if not better, chance that there is just less steel.

Soundguy · Sep 21, 2005

The raw material is only part of the equation. the metalurgy and cast process is another.

Soundguy

Maka · Sep 21, 2005

No problem Eric. I would call the guys at Scandanavian Forrestry and ask him about the winch. His name is Anders and he used to be the Farmi distributor as I understand it.

I know that several of the Tajfun winch users here have personally spoken to Anders and he is knowlegable. I have not had one single complaint or problem with the Tajfun.

It is extremely well built, lots of features and more afforadable than most.

Best of luck to you in the search process.

Maka

Dargo · Sep 21, 2005

Hey, talk about coincidence. A neighbor of mine just scrapped his old 10k fork truck. He took all "toxic" things off of it and drained all fluids. He took it to Dumas recycling to cash in on the scrap steel. Afterall, even after being stripped, this thing weighed over 8000 pounds. Apparently he didn't get get squat for it. The "weight" used as counter weight on fork trucks is is apparently made of poor quality. When he asked Dumas where they sell the "junk" steel, you know what the answer was? "It goes overseas and some 3rd world companies make tractors with it." /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

No kidding. Before you get all fired up at me, I'm only relating what was told to me, and nobody mentioned what country used the steel. I just thought it was timely to the comments here about the quality of steel. I didn't know the counter weights on fork trucks were made of "junk" steel. Did you?

Varmintmist · Sep 21, 2005

I'm not fired up. It is the norm here for folks to take unsupported swipes at "other than big 3" brands. No big deal. Kind of amusing in a sad way. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif JD folks took swipes at Kubota for years, and Deere ignored the small tractor market. My color choice has Kubota and Deere combined beat in their home market, so what?. I am happy with mine after having run other tractors and a lot of different equipment in my life. However this is a big "so what" as it relates to the question asked.

No, I didnt know that forktruks used junk steel as counterweight, though it is a good idea. Why spend more on just weight? He figured on .35 or whatever a lb and they took off for the work it will take to break it down. If you look at the scrap prices it mostly is listed as ".30/lb for engine block" not for dried out truck.

I also just talked to a guy. He is unimpressed by his new 990 4wd with loader. He says that he cant keep the front end on the ground pulling a blade or the manure spreader up hill. Anecdotal evidence, better than your anecdotal evidence since it is only second hand, yet anecdotal nonetheless. Which is why I didnt bring it up because it really doesnt have anything to do with skidding logs with a 990 since I have no idea if this guy was having a real problem, full of it, or just incompetant.

Just a question, what country does Deere buy its steel from? They arent buying all that steel out of Pittsburgh. Not that it matters since the country of origin, per the Deere site, is Japan for the 990 and it is a rebadged Yanmar. { Manufacturer Yanmar 4TNE84 , Country of Origin Japan 990 site }

Soundguy is probably more correct in pointing out that it is more in the way it is made. Kind of a Ruger vs Smith and Wesson thing. Rugers are investment cast, bigger, stronger and cheaper. S&W are more refined, lighter and prettier. They also wont hold up to the same pressures a Ruger will but carrying a Ruger in your pants is no fun. Doesnt mean a S&W is bad or a Ruger is bad, they are different with a different approach to manufacture.

Back to my point. To skid, you need weight for traction and so that you can horse logs around if you need to. What is wrong with that statement? I cant and wont tell the guy that the 990 wont work. I stated that I thought it would and gave my experiance doing the same type of work he is stating that he is going to do. I dont care if it is red, green, burnt orange with pink polka dots, it needs weight. That weight can be from old wheel weights as long as its there.

Dargo · Sep 21, 2005

Uh, yup. And I'm sure that Jennings and Davis firearms use the exact same quality steel, tooling, manufacturing tolerances and quality control as Kimber and H&K. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Just sometimes, you get what you pay for.

Bob_Skurka · Sep 21, 2005

Just for the record, the 2 biggest users by % of recycled steel to virgin steel are China and Korea. Recycled steel is typically much lower grade; typically lower grade metal must be cast heavier to achieve similar strength. I have no idea if the tractor producers in those nations use virgin, recycled or a combination of those.

Also for the record, a JD 990 is not a badge engineered Yanmar. It is a proprietary design made by Yanmar for JD under contract. There is a difference between badge engineering and proprietary design, and that does not mean that some parts are not common, it just means that the 990 is built to JD design and built to JD quality control specs.

Now I don't have a horse in this race as I don't own a Chinese, a Korean or a JD tractor, but I figured I'd set the records straight. By the way, given the choice, I'd prefer than criminals use guns like a Jennings instead of a quality gun. . . the odds of them hitting me would be greatly reduced! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Dargo · Sep 21, 2005

( Now I don't have a horse in this race as I don't own a Chinese, a Korean or a JD tractor, )

Well, I don't own any of those either, but my tractor is one of the heavier tractors for it's HP range. How did that happen?! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Deerlope · Sep 21, 2005

M-6800 Kubota would be happy to help you with all those chores plus it woud have some exerciseing room on that 105 acres. 4- 18" dia would be just about right for it. You don't want to work it real hard.

Varmintmist · Sep 22, 2005

So where does Yanmar buy their steel /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Made by Yanmar is made by Yanmar. Deere may have speced it out, but it is a Yanmar made tractor. NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

If you think there is as much difference in a Mahindra and Deere as there is in Jennings and Kimber, you have never looked at a Mahindra or a Kimber. I've got a Kimber, and I had a Deere and now have a Mahindra and I like Rugers. Think Ruger vs S&W. Both well made, different take on how to get there.

Prove your statement that all but the big 3 are made of low quality steel. And that if they are using a lower grade of steel, explain how, since they are built heavier, the tractor is any less strong for the job they are built for. Otherwise it is smoke.

mike223 · Sep 22, 2005

Varmintmist,
I'm new to this forum, and am looking to buy a compact tractor for 70 ac in middle TN. It has 55 ac of timber, and 15 in pasture. I was considering a New Holland, Kubota or Yanmar in the 30-40 HP range, but a buddy of mine mentioned the Mahindra, and I have never heard of it, and I see that you own one. I'm assuming it's made in India or somewhere else in the "developing" world, at least from the previous posts. I would be using this tractor primarily for bushhogging, with some timber work and plowing/planting of a large vegetable garden, as well as food plots for deer. How does it stack up to the previous mentioned brands, how is the dealer support, ease of maintenance, and parts availability, especially consumables such as filters etc. Thanks for the help.

Dargo · Sep 22, 2005

( Prove your statement that all but the big 3 are made of low quality steel. And that if they are using a lower grade of steel, explain how, since they are built heavier, the tractor is any less strong for the job they are built for. Otherwise it is smoke. )

Gee, you either must have difficulty interpreting the written word, or you have me confused with someone else. I just don't recall saying anywhere that "all but the big 3 are made of low quality steel." Hmm, speaking of smoke...