My $.02...I've been logging on a 42 acre woodlot on the side of a small mountain in NH since 1992. I bought a Belarus 572 and a Farmi winch (in 1992). 635 hours later I've learned a lot. The Belarus is still going strong but because I cn't be without a tractor in the winter I just bought a Farm Pro 8240. If you're going to haul heavey stems; Red Oak you'll appreciate a heavy tractor. Something over 7,000 #'s at the very least. I do a lot of cutting in the winter and a big heavy, powerful 4wd tractor is a must. I looked at all the name brand tractors and talked to Uhmpteen dozen dealers when I bought the Belarus. Everyone laughed and said I'd be sorry. Paid $12,500 with a loader delivered. One of the same dealers that laughed (when I bought the Belarus) wanted to sell me a Mahindra 7010 cab with loader for $33,400. He said he'd give me $6,500 for the Belarus. Not a bad deal. But I told him the Belarus was still going strong and that I'd keep it buy the Farm Pro 8240 with a Koyker 310 loader delivered for $26,000 and I'd have two tractors for less money than the offer he was giving me. Since all utility tractors under 100 hp and all compact tractors are made...somewhere over the rainbow, why pay a smal fortune for a tractor?
New Tractor Guidance
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Varmintmist
Platinum Member
Mike I sent you a message, no sense in taking this thread farther off track.
Dargo, I misstated the "statement" part. I sould have said "inference".
Dargo, I misstated the "statement" part. I sould have said "inference".
cowboydoc
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Actually Deere steel is some of the highest grade available. So is the casting process. This isn't just anecdotal. Deere has the proof to back up the steel in their machines. You can't even get access to the machining process on other machines. Deere will take you right into the factory and show you their process along with the steel and casting certification #'s. They have the highest in the industry. It's no secret that the steel is heavier in Mahindra because it's a lower grade. And I know you won't take my word for it so go get a primary metal piece from a Mahindra and from a Deere and have it analyzed. Those results do not lie and will tell you the real truth about the quality of the steel.
EFR I wouldn't let the size of the 4x20 series scare you. I have the same size and I can get mine about anywhere that I want. I have a finish and rotary mower that I use on pastures and lawn and with the R4 tires it rarely leaves footprints. The 4720 is a really nice machine. You could do about anything you wanted with it. If that's too much the smaller 4x20 series are very nice. It's very easy to add weight to the wheels and the front if needed. That way you have the weight when you want it and can take it off when you need a lighter tractor.
If you really want an unbiased opinion ask Bob or Dargo in a PM. They have both really researched the different models and will tell you like it is without any bias. Most of the time in the forums if they tell the truth they just get in disucssions like this so you won't get how they really feel unless it's in a PM.
Mike 223,
As far as parts and dealer support when there are problems go take a look at the Mahindra board and ask a few of those guys how easy it is to get ongoing problems resolved. I'm not sure of the other mfg. but with Deere if there are ongoing issues they buy it back full price or give you the full purchase price towards the cost of a new one or different model.
EFR I wouldn't let the size of the 4x20 series scare you. I have the same size and I can get mine about anywhere that I want. I have a finish and rotary mower that I use on pastures and lawn and with the R4 tires it rarely leaves footprints. The 4720 is a really nice machine. You could do about anything you wanted with it. If that's too much the smaller 4x20 series are very nice. It's very easy to add weight to the wheels and the front if needed. That way you have the weight when you want it and can take it off when you need a lighter tractor.
If you really want an unbiased opinion ask Bob or Dargo in a PM. They have both really researched the different models and will tell you like it is without any bias. Most of the time in the forums if they tell the truth they just get in disucssions like this so you won't get how they really feel unless it's in a PM.
Mike 223,
As far as parts and dealer support when there are problems go take a look at the Mahindra board and ask a few of those guys how easy it is to get ongoing problems resolved. I'm not sure of the other mfg. but with Deere if there are ongoing issues they buy it back full price or give you the full purchase price towards the cost of a new one or different model.
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Actually Deere steel is some of the highest grade available. So is the casting process. This isn't just anecdotal. Deere has the proof to back up the steel in their machines. You can't even get access to the machining process on other machines. Deere will take you right into the factory and show you their process along with the steel and casting certification #'s. )</font>
That would of course be the Yanmar factory, in Japan. They going to fly us there?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's no secret that the steel is heavier in Mahindra because it's a lower grade. )</font>
Is it recycled steel from counterweights out of fork trucks? If not provable, then the evidence was acecdotal.
Second, even if the steel is of a lower grade, what are the odds that anyone on this board will ever wear it out? I probably put more hours on as anyone here except the full time farmers or contractors, and it isnt a lawn mower. I dont think I will break mine even though it isnt painted green.
I didnt bring the type of steel into this because it has no bearing on the question. I did not start the brand bashing. I stated that the 990 would do the job. I said you need weight to skid logs. I use a Mahindra to skid. The Mahindra has more weight. I said that it might be a good idea to look at one. I also stated that a CUT is light to do skidding with. I also stated that you want as much lbs on the ground as you can get when you are skidding.
Only one other person has stated that he does the same work with his and he also stated that you want weight.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have a finish and rotary mower that I use on pastures and lawn and with the R4 tires it rarely leaves footprints. )</font>
Lawnmowers are not for moving trees, my point exactly.
That would of course be the Yanmar factory, in Japan. They going to fly us there?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's no secret that the steel is heavier in Mahindra because it's a lower grade. )</font>
Is it recycled steel from counterweights out of fork trucks? If not provable, then the evidence was acecdotal.
Second, even if the steel is of a lower grade, what are the odds that anyone on this board will ever wear it out? I probably put more hours on as anyone here except the full time farmers or contractors, and it isnt a lawn mower. I dont think I will break mine even though it isnt painted green.
I didnt bring the type of steel into this because it has no bearing on the question. I did not start the brand bashing. I stated that the 990 would do the job. I said you need weight to skid logs. I use a Mahindra to skid. The Mahindra has more weight. I said that it might be a good idea to look at one. I also stated that a CUT is light to do skidding with. I also stated that you want as much lbs on the ground as you can get when you are skidding.
Only one other person has stated that he does the same work with his and he also stated that you want weight.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have a finish and rotary mower that I use on pastures and lawn and with the R4 tires it rarely leaves footprints. )</font>
Lawnmowers are not for moving trees, my point exactly.
cowboydoc
Super Member
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First of all you don't need to go to Japan. Deere has all the credentials on all their tractors right here in the US.
Secondly I never said they were good or bad but call a spade a spade. The reason that a Mahindra is higher in weight is not because it's made from more or better steel it's because the steel is a lower grade. That's the fact. Will it break or not hard to say. There aren't alot of 30 year old Mahindra's around.
Third the guy that started the thread said that he wanted to use the tractor for working in his yard. He wanted a tractor to move trees but not tear up his lawn. Probably read the entire post before bashing me on that one.
Secondly I never said they were good or bad but call a spade a spade. The reason that a Mahindra is higher in weight is not because it's made from more or better steel it's because the steel is a lower grade. That's the fact. Will it break or not hard to say. There aren't alot of 30 year old Mahindra's around.
Third the guy that started the thread said that he wanted to use the tractor for working in his yard. He wanted a tractor to move trees but not tear up his lawn. Probably read the entire post before bashing me on that one.
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
First, the company has been making tractors for 50 years so there are 30 year old Mahindras around. The Yanmar-John Deere Engineering Yugengaisha (Limited Company) was formed in 1977. http://www.yanmar.com/about/
"1977 Agreement with Japanese manufacturer Yanmar authorizes sale of small tractors under the John Deere name. " http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/student/timeline_1960.html
So there are pretty good odds that there not many 30 year old Yanmar Deeres around either. Is there a point to the 30 year old comment that I missed? If you want to fight Quality, where is Deere's Demming awards for their tractor division.
Second, the use of a higher grade steel allows you to make the same thing lighter and smaller with similar strength. That is not always better nor is it worse, it does however depend on your situation. Lesser grade steel is still strong, not pound for pound, you need more of it to do the job.
Thirdly, He stated he wanted to drive across his lawn and not tear it up as he would with his full sized hoe. You ought to read the post. Here, so you dont have to scroll back, </font><font color="blueclass=small">( am in the market for a new tractor for around the house. The tractor will primarily be used for hauling timber from the woods, small chores around the house, as well as snow removal from a 700+ ft. driveway. I have 105 acres of mostly hardwoods that I cut 15-20 chord from a year. )</font> Trust me, unless he is otherwise unemployed, 15-20 cord is the primary function. </font><font color="blueclass=small">( I want to be able to go over the lawn occasionally )</font>
Fourth, there was never a question of steel grades until it was brought in by Dargo. The fact that Deere uses better steel was never in question simply because it is irrelevant to the question. Weight is relevant, the equivilant Mahindra is heavier thus it puts more of its available HP on the ground. More weight will also keep him from getting pushed by trees which is a saftey factor.
Fifth, find where I stated that the Deere was a bad unit or would not do the job. I think if you actually read the thread, instead of going color blind, you would find that I stated that "the 990 would do the job" I did say that more weight would be better and related my experiance with a different brand.
Sixth, if you want to tour the 990 factory, you will swim or fly to Osaka, Japan. The same place my last tractor was made, and my fathers current tractor, both Deere.
It was decided by Dargo to bring steel grades into the mix. Perhaps you can tell me what in the heck that has to do with skidding logs or anything that was posted by the original guy.
"1977 Agreement with Japanese manufacturer Yanmar authorizes sale of small tractors under the John Deere name. " http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/student/timeline_1960.html
So there are pretty good odds that there not many 30 year old Yanmar Deeres around either. Is there a point to the 30 year old comment that I missed? If you want to fight Quality, where is Deere's Demming awards for their tractor division.
Second, the use of a higher grade steel allows you to make the same thing lighter and smaller with similar strength. That is not always better nor is it worse, it does however depend on your situation. Lesser grade steel is still strong, not pound for pound, you need more of it to do the job.
Thirdly, He stated he wanted to drive across his lawn and not tear it up as he would with his full sized hoe. You ought to read the post. Here, so you dont have to scroll back, </font><font color="blueclass=small">( am in the market for a new tractor for around the house. The tractor will primarily be used for hauling timber from the woods, small chores around the house, as well as snow removal from a 700+ ft. driveway. I have 105 acres of mostly hardwoods that I cut 15-20 chord from a year. )</font> Trust me, unless he is otherwise unemployed, 15-20 cord is the primary function. </font><font color="blueclass=small">( I want to be able to go over the lawn occasionally )</font>
Fourth, there was never a question of steel grades until it was brought in by Dargo. The fact that Deere uses better steel was never in question simply because it is irrelevant to the question. Weight is relevant, the equivilant Mahindra is heavier thus it puts more of its available HP on the ground. More weight will also keep him from getting pushed by trees which is a saftey factor.
Fifth, find where I stated that the Deere was a bad unit or would not do the job. I think if you actually read the thread, instead of going color blind, you would find that I stated that "the 990 would do the job" I did say that more weight would be better and related my experiance with a different brand.
Sixth, if you want to tour the 990 factory, you will swim or fly to Osaka, Japan. The same place my last tractor was made, and my fathers current tractor, both Deere.
It was decided by Dargo to bring steel grades into the mix. Perhaps you can tell me what in the heck that has to do with skidding logs or anything that was posted by the original guy.
Maka
Veteran Member
I really appreciate it when someone posts links as support documentation of their position. It is to often that people spout things as fact and then show nothing to support it.
Then people read it and buy into it as truthful facts when in reality it was just smoke. Thanks for the facts with proof of your statements.
Maka
Then people read it and buy into it as truthful facts when in reality it was just smoke. Thanks for the facts with proof of your statements.
Maka
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
My only position was that you really want to have weight when you skid trees. I dont care what color it is.
I believe I stated that more than once.
That fact that the JD 90's are made in Osaka by Yanmar means nothing. They are real good machines and if you get one you will not be under tractored. Arguably the best small tractor deisel engine made. I know, I had a Osaka Deere. They are a bit light for what I do, IMHO, which is 80% tree work. To tell you the truth, the 3510 is a little light sometimes, but you have to get as much weight as you can and still get through the woods without bunging every tree around. For the most part it does what I ask.
That was and is my only point.
I believe I stated that more than once.
That fact that the JD 90's are made in Osaka by Yanmar means nothing. They are real good machines and if you get one you will not be under tractored. Arguably the best small tractor deisel engine made. I know, I had a Osaka Deere. They are a bit light for what I do, IMHO, which is 80% tree work. To tell you the truth, the 3510 is a little light sometimes, but you have to get as much weight as you can and still get through the woods without bunging every tree around. For the most part it does what I ask.
That was and is my only point.
Soundguy
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I was reading a kioti advertisment yesterday.. they claim highest weight per hp ratio in the tractor market... Is this an advertisement 'slogan' or are they for real.
Soundguy
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