Ballast New truck: weights, towing capacity

[Bob_Skurka]

When you're at 91% of the maximum allowable load that starts to cut into the margin.

As a 'medium duty' truck fleet owner I totally agree with you. I used to buy trucks that were loaded to capacity on a regular basis. We destroyed the transmissions, suspensions, and brakes. If we were lucky the trucks would last us 100,000 to maybe 150,000 miles and that was only if we endured numerous large repair bills. I now buy trucks that are heavier than I need and load them on a regular basis to about 75% to 90% of their full capacity, doing this allows us to get 300,000 miles or more out of the vehicles. I have one that is over 400,000 miles and still running strong.

I'm constantly amazed by the stupid advice (IMHO) and the dangerous advice (IMHO) given in the towing threads. Yes, you can overload your trucks and trailers but it is not safe, it typically will void the warrenty, it is typically illegal, and it will destroy your vehicles if you do it frequently. It may well damage your vehicle the first time you try it.

MOST of the little wood decked trailers people buy are very low quality angle iron trailers, there is no safety factor built into those discount trailers. Some of the name brand tailers may have a safety factor built into them, but even then I doubt it. As for the tow vehicles, if you think you can overload your truck and not damage it then I say go ahead and do it, after all you are the one paying to repair it. Yes you may 'get away' with it a few times, especially if you are careful, drive slow, etc.

As for the tow vehicle ratings. . . Highbeam actually makes a good point that long beds or crew cabs reduce towing capacity . . . HOWEVER that is one of those "all other things being equal" statements and most times when you outfit a vehicle, things are not equal. More often than not, if you outfit a truck properly, heavier trucks will typically (but not always) have greater capacity.

 

[whodat90]

I agree. I have a 7000lb capacity trailer, much like the original poster's. I've loaded it up to close to that, and there's definitely a large difference in the way it feels versus when I only have it loaded to about 5000lb. I also have a small 5x8 utility trailer with about a 1400lb load capacity; I recently put that much sand in it, and bent it pretty badly. Yes it handled the load but if I did that on any kind of a regular basis it would destroy it. FWIW I have a 3/4 ton yukon with a 12,000 lb tow rating; even if I load the big trailer to it's max weight, I'm still just slightly over half the tow capacity of the truck. This is relative to a 1/2 ton yukon, which would be nearly maxed out. Now _that's_ a safety margin I can verify.

 

[Highbeam]

What I'm saying is that you would be surprized if you actually weighed your vehicles empty and then compared those empty weights to the ratings. If you performed this calculation for the various pickups you would be even more surprized. I advocate that it is acceptable to use every bit of the allowable rating every day, that is why it is called a rating. Loading less is just a bonus and can only add to the life of your vehicle or trailer since it is being underworked. This underloaded condition is a safety margin to the ratings and every pound of cargo you add starting at zero reduces your safety margin.

Lots of people are hung up on 3/4 ton vs 1/2 ton when they haven't actually done the math. Neverenough, perfect name, falls in this category since it is apparent that he likes his truck and assumes that we all need the same thing. It is true that a 3/4 ton can do everything that a half ton can do and more so I can see where folks like him would dismiss the lesser trucks without close examination of the load to be carried, empty weight, current ratings, etc.

I would like a one ton truck too. I like the idea of increasing the safety margin, but, I will not fault someone for using their truck to its rated capacity.

 

[whodat90]

I agree, to a point. In the military we had three different weights assigned to our helicopters; empty weight, mission weight, max weight. Empty weight is obvious. Mission weight is the weight that that vehicle could fly at and still perform it's mission adequately, the weight it was designed to fly at. Max weight was the limit past which it became dangerous to fly, for power and structural reasons. If you run any vehicle at or near it's maximum capabilities, it will be less safe and wear faster than if you don't. As for the half ton vs. 3/4 ton, the math on my truck bears it out, at least for me. Half-ton, max of 8500lbs tow capacity. 3/4 ton, 12,000 lb tow capacity. If you make it more directly comparable, the 4wd 3/4 ton has a capacity of 12,000 lbs. The 1/2 ton 4wd has a max of 8200. For towing a tractor, I'd consider 4wd important due to the likely off-road areas to which you'd tow. I wouldn't say that I would dismiss a half-ton, just that for me the minimal price and operating cost difference between a half ton and a 3/4 ton to get 47% more tow capacity was a deal. Looked at a different way, with a half-ton I'd be operating at 85% capacity with a 7000lb trailer; with my 3/4 ton I'm operating at 58%. That's math that works out for me. As for running the trailer at 100% capacity, I may do it once in a while for short distances but doing it on an everyday basis is way out of my comfort zone. I'd rather buy a different trailer with a higher rating. One thing to keep in mind about trailer ratings, they're almost never based on the build quality of the trailer; they're based on max load of the tires, and the axle's ability to carry that weight. If you have a 7000lb capacity trailer, with two 3500lb axles, that means each tire is rated at about 2000lbs max load. If you lose one tire, the other 3 are immediately overloaded.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

It is called a towing capacity. It is the MAXIMUM towing capacity for the vehicle. The vehicle will have considerable loss of handling, considerable loss of power, considerable loss of braking, and considerable loss of service life if you constantly use it's MAXIMUM capacity. I'ts like having your vehicle floored all the time. You are using it's MAXIMUM acceleration capacity when doing so. You can do so all you want, but it too will cause a considerable loss in the vehicle's servicable life. Is it advisable? I wouldn't advise such. . . We are talking about towing capacity. I could pick any manufacturer, but here is a link to Ford's maximum towing capacities for their 1/2 ton pickups http://www.fordvehicles.com/towing/popup.asp It's a rather impressive towing capacity, but you will note that the towing capacity for the regular cab, super cab, and crew cab are rated at the exact same maximum capacity.

That is exactly what I was trying to point out, but you said it differently. Anytime you use something to its capacity, you are using every bit of it, stressing every component to its fullest extent. Put another way, if your wife is a 400# woman and your scale goes to 400#, do you weigh her after she downs a 1/2 gallon tub of Rocky Road for dessert and then expect the same scale to accurately weigh the shot charge for your next Pheasant Load? I think not, I think the scale will have had a string stretched or a balance bar bent. Trucks and trailers work the same. Operate them at or above their maximium capacities and you are just begging for problems. But then again, if Dargo's wife is a 400-pounder, I suggest he has more trouble with capacity in his Dodge than he lets on

 

[GeneD14]

That is exactly what I was trying to point out, but you said it differently. Anytime you use something to its capacity, you are using every bit of it, stressing every component to its fullest extent. Put another way, if your wife is a 400# woman and your scale goes to 400#, do you weigh her after she downs a 1/2 gallon tub of Rocky Road for dessert and then expect the same scale to accurately weigh the shot charge for your next Pheasant Load? I think not, I think the scale will have had a string stretched or a balance bar bent. Trucks and trailers work the same. Operate them at or above their maximium capacities and you are just begging for problems. But then again, if Dargo's wife is a 400-pounder, I suggest he has more trouble with capacity in his Dodge than he lets on

OMG... That is the biggest belly laugh that I've had in a while!! You have painted quite a picture.

Well said Bob.

 

[Av8r3400]

Diesel engines, crew cabs, 4x4s, and even long beds all add to the empty curb weight. It turns out that many a manly diesel 4x4 crew cab pickup is overloaded before a meazly toyota minitruck is.

Seriously, are you insane?

 

[Dargo]

But then again, if Dargo's wife is a 400-pounder, I suggest he has more trouble with capacity in his Dodge than he lets on

Gee, thanks Bob. Actually my wife was looking over my shoulder on the post you quoted and told me to delete it because I was coming across as a smart a$s. I tried to get it up before she saw it, but I rushed and she still got into the room and saw it. Please strike anything after the point I asked "Is it advisable". That is where she spanked me and told me to mind my manners. I'll send her your way after she sees your post. She has a vicious foot stomp move.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'm legitimately able to blame the effects of the pain killers I'm on for any questionable posts.

 

[Wannafish]

Wow Bob - Those pain killers must work wonders!
And you'll need them when Dargo's wife shows up...