new/used/rebuilt engine needed for JD 4100
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jeffmazz
Silver Member
Hey Mike, that dingleberry hone you are referring to is actually a glazebreaker. They are normally used to break the glaze on a cylinder before actual honing. You can sometimes use these for final honing of the cylinders but it is not recommended. It is recommended to use a cylinder hone with the correct grit stones for the particular piston rings you are using. The ring manufacturer should specify a certain grit stone and hone pattern for their particular rings. Again, you can use the glazebreaker but you may drastically shorten the life of the rings depending on the application.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Best Regards,
Jeff
Unfortunantly - one size does not fit all. You will likely need one of each. The 1/2 inch for head bolts and other bolts requiring torque in the multiple foot-pound range and the 3/8 inch for valve covers and oil pans requiring torque in the inch-pound range. Usually there is not enough overlap for one wrench to meet both needs.
If your motor has an aluminum block and heads - then your bolts will likely be the "torque to yield" variety (the instructions will say"torque to ___ then turn 90 degrees). If so - then take the earlier advice and replace the bolts.
Joe
If your motor has an aluminum block and heads - then your bolts will likely be the "torque to yield" variety (the instructions will say"torque to ___ then turn 90 degrees). If so - then take the earlier advice and replace the bolts.
Joe
normde2001
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
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- 4,163
I don't know if it has been mentioned or not, but be sure and drain the coolant before loosening the head bolts. I know a lot of 1st timers fail to do this and end up with a big mess.
larso1
Gold Member
Hey Jeff,
You wrote: "It is recommended to use a cylinder hone with the correct grit stones for the particular piston rings you are using. The ring manufacturer should specify a certain grit stone and hone pattern for their particular rings. Again, you can use the glazebreaker but you may drastically shorten the life of the rings depending on the application."
Is there a cylinder hone out there other than the 3-stone spring-tensioned flat type? I'm not an expert mechanic or machinist so that's why I'm asking, but if that is what you are referring to, how can you get full contact of flat stone faces on used cylinder walls that are not perfectly cylindrical from top to bottom? You can if they are freshly bored out but not when they are hour glass shaped from wear. That's why my diesel mechanic friend lent me a ball ("dingleberry") hone to do mine. Worked great and gave a nice cross hatching pattern from top to bottom of cylinder. Good compression and no smoke from the first startup. Just asking,
Bill
You wrote: "It is recommended to use a cylinder hone with the correct grit stones for the particular piston rings you are using. The ring manufacturer should specify a certain grit stone and hone pattern for their particular rings. Again, you can use the glazebreaker but you may drastically shorten the life of the rings depending on the application."
Is there a cylinder hone out there other than the 3-stone spring-tensioned flat type? I'm not an expert mechanic or machinist so that's why I'm asking, but if that is what you are referring to, how can you get full contact of flat stone faces on used cylinder walls that are not perfectly cylindrical from top to bottom? You can if they are freshly bored out but not when they are hour glass shaped from wear. That's why my diesel mechanic friend lent me a ball ("dingleberry") hone to do mine. Worked great and gave a nice cross hatching pattern from top to bottom of cylinder. Good compression and no smoke from the first startup. Just asking,
Bill
Mike_Lipke
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2005
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- 205
- Tractor
- Kubota BX1500
Sorry, I meant to say i have the 1/2 inch TW, and use the 1/2 to 3/8 adaptor if i have to use 3/8 sockets. This has served me well and done everything i have needed. I don't use a torque wrench for fasteners like pan bolts, valve cover bolts, etc. Just for crank, flywheel, head, rod and bearing caps. Not that fastidious on that stuff. Heads really do need a TW though, and if a guy needs just one, 1/2 should do it.
jeffmazz
Silver Member
Bill, if the cylinders are too far out of round you should bore the block as you mentioned. A three sided flat stone hone will make contact in an hourglass shaped cylinder from top to bottom. If the cylinder is too far out of shape for a flat stone hone to make a pattern from top to bottom then it needs to be bored. The ball hone can be used but they are usually a very course grit and are not recommended for final honing. As I said in my earlier post they can be used for final honing but it depends on the application. If you are using hard rings (Moly) you can probably get away with it. If your rings are cast iron you can kiss them goodbye in short order. They will work for a while but they definately will not last very long. I'm pretty sure all diesel engines use moly rings so you should be OK.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Best Regards,
Jeff
If you plan to remove the engine then have a machine shop prep the block for you. Once you go through the trouble of removing the engine - you might as well bring it back to "like new" condition. Your local machine shop will have the right tools to measure the block and make the necessary correctons.
Usually a machine shop will charge by the cylinder for the block and by the valve for the head. Although I don't know the specifics of your engine (i.e. the number of cylinders/valves) - you can probably get the machining done for a few hundred (including the hot tanking).
The problem with in-chassis repairs is controlling the movement of the junk that will fly around during the rebuild process (from the honing, cleaning of gaskets and etc.). The small particles of metal and grit can cause problems if not cleaned out prior to reassembly. Keeping the engine clean is the most difficult problem with this type of rebuild and as such it is usually not recommended. As said previously - the "big diesels" have easily removeable sleeves that make in-chassis rebuilding a piece of cake. Although your tractor may have removeable sleeves (aluminum blocks will have them out of neccessity) it is very possible that the changeout will require removal of the block. On cars (which is my experience) - it is rare to ever have to remove these sleeves since they are designed with enough thickness to survive multiple rebuildings.
My two cents. Good luck and have fun.
Joe
Usually a machine shop will charge by the cylinder for the block and by the valve for the head. Although I don't know the specifics of your engine (i.e. the number of cylinders/valves) - you can probably get the machining done for a few hundred (including the hot tanking).
The problem with in-chassis repairs is controlling the movement of the junk that will fly around during the rebuild process (from the honing, cleaning of gaskets and etc.). The small particles of metal and grit can cause problems if not cleaned out prior to reassembly. Keeping the engine clean is the most difficult problem with this type of rebuild and as such it is usually not recommended. As said previously - the "big diesels" have easily removeable sleeves that make in-chassis rebuilding a piece of cake. Although your tractor may have removeable sleeves (aluminum blocks will have them out of neccessity) it is very possible that the changeout will require removal of the block. On cars (which is my experience) - it is rare to ever have to remove these sleeves since they are designed with enough thickness to survive multiple rebuildings.
My two cents. Good luck and have fun.
Joe
tlbuser
Veteran Member
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As said previously - the "big diesels" have easily removeable sleeves that make in-chassis rebuilding a piece of cake. Although your tractor may have removeable sleeves (aluminum blocks will have them out of neccessity) it is very possible that the changeout will require removal of the block.
Joe )</font> I don't understand this comment. On any sleeved engine, an in-chassis rebuild should be very doable. Might have to rent / borrow a sleeve puller, but......
As said previously - the "big diesels" have easily removeable sleeves that make in-chassis rebuilding a piece of cake. Although your tractor may have removeable sleeves (aluminum blocks will have them out of neccessity) it is very possible that the changeout will require removal of the block.
Joe )</font> I don't understand this comment. On any sleeved engine, an in-chassis rebuild should be very doable. Might have to rent / borrow a sleeve puller, but......
