NEWBIE looking for advice

Soundguy · Apr 12, 2006

Nothing wrong with Farmtrac.. It's not a big 3 .. but it right there with them in terms of company support.

Dealer will make the difference.

Close is good.. especially when it comes to dealer support. Set on a bunch of seats before you write a check.

Soundguy

KiotiJohn · Apr 12, 2006

Shuttle shifts come in a variety of configurations.
Manual: Must stop the tractor before shifting F/R in the gear you choose to operate. Clutch and shift.
Synchro: No need to stop first, clutch and shift
Power shuttle: no need to clutch to shift the shuttle

HST may be the easiest of all to learn, but one gets used to whatever one buys. The biggest mistake I find most gear/shuttle users make is to "slip" the clutch to much while trying to do close up work, leading to clutch burn out. This is eliminated with an HST transmission as the clutch is usually only used on HST to power the PTO or change gear range (High/Low, or High/Medium/Low ranges).
There are some HSTs that don't require a clutch at all even to engage the PTO.

Confusing, yes! Interesting and fun to research and learn, I think so.

I love my HST, have had geared, and would use again.

As for brands, go look! Make sure you know what is included as standard. Some brands, like Kioti include the loader valve and joystick as standard equipment. I think Mahindra may also.
Sometimes the extras can outprice another good standardized brand.

Also consider the fit and finish of the tractor. Do things make sense, is the material that it's made of going to last? Is the metal flimsy, or stiff and strong, does the tractor have enough weight to take advantage of the HP? AM I COMFORTABLE on this tractor? Some tractors have platform operator stations, while others have a "ladder" frame type that your legs basically straddle. Decide which you find comfortable for long hours of use, and ease of ingress and egress to the seat.

I looked at the Farmtracs and they seem just fine, but found that I liked the Kioti much better, and that it was more of everything for my needs. Your opinion may vary.

John

daTeacha · Apr 13, 2006

You said you are new to tractors. I agree with what has been said, but wonder if you understand the acronyms we tend to use. The stuff about PTO horsepower refers to the amount of power delivered to the Power Take Off shaft at the rear and/or middle of the tractor. This power is used to run mowers, and other such things. If you won't be using the PTO a great deal, or for very heavy work, missing a few hp there is no big deal. HSTs are probably the most popular transmissions among the posters. I'm going to be joining those ranks soon, despite feeling tractors need gears. It was just so much smoother to move a half inch or so or very slowy and deliberately that I was hooked.

Whatever you get, you will quickly adapt to using, unless you have trouble with doing anything mechanical. I doubt that or you wouldn't have made the move to country living in the first place. Definitely look around a lot before making a purchase. The machines are all pretty good, but some will fit you better than others, some dealers will seem more like family than others. Check out what your new neighbors are using, or just stop in, say hello, and ask what they think. Country folks tend to be friendly and helpful.

citytransplant · May 5, 2006

Thanks to every one of you folks for sharing your experience. I found every post to be very helpful.

Now that all of the snow and most of the mud are pretty much history, I have been able to explore most of the 7 acre property that we bought in December. It appears that I will have a need to drag fallen timber in order to clear trails for horses. What is the best way to tackle this chore? In addition, should I pay close attention to lift capacity when doing side by side comparisons in light of the logging challenge? I notice some specification sheets describe capacity at “lift point” while others reveal capacity 24” behind lift point and to make things even more confusing Montana talks about capacity at “ball ends.” It appears that lifting capacity diminishes as one moves away from the lift point. Where exactly is the lift point (aren’t there really 3 … as in 3 point hitch) and what is a ball end? Why measure capacity 2 feet behind the lift point?

Or should I not concern myself too much with lift capacity, because dragging trees is a job best suited for the FEL?

Thanks in advance.

BTW… looks like someone beat me to the Farmtrac 270DTC that I mentioned in my initial post as I no longer see it on the dealer’s lot. Must be a message from the TractorGod that I need sumpthin’ bigger.

Ryno1 · May 6, 2006

One other thing to consider - the dealer. Does the dealer have a service center or just sales? Warranty? Does a particular dealer seem interested in what you need or just what he wants to sell you. Check out all the brands close by, sit on them, drive them, do as much as the dealer will allow.

As for moving logs - I have a NH TC30 and I find most of the time, I hook a chain on logs and drag them out of the way. Depends alot on size of the log, but I drag logs that I can't lift. Sometimes it's just easier and to me safer. An unbalanced log hanging from the FEL makes the tractor tippy. Good luck and have fun.

KiotiJohn · May 6, 2006

( I notice some specification sheets describe capacity at “lift point” while others reveal capacity 24” behind lift point and to make things even more confusing Montana talks about capacity at “ball ends.” It appears that lifting capacity diminishes as one moves away from the lift point. )
I have always considered the lift point to be what Montana is calling the ball ends. Those are the rotating sockets at the end of the hitch arms that the implement pins go through for mounting. Some people consider the lift point to be where the lift arms connect up higher on the rock shafts, but I'm not sure which is correct.

24" behind tells more about how much lift you'll get as that's where many implements will be when hooked on. Yes, capacity goes down the further out away from the lift point you get.

John

citytransplant · May 7, 2006

Thanks again for the wisdom shared by all. Having done some apples to apples comparisons, I noticed that 2 Deere units (that would otherwise meet my needs) have dramatically less lift capacity as compared to comparable units. For example:

Deere 790 (27 HP) with 815 lbs
Vs.
Farmtrac 270DTC (27 HP) with 1587 lbs.

Deere 990 (40.4 HP) with 1573 lbs.
Vs.
Farmtrac 330HST (33 HP) with 2976 lbs.

Note with the last example, Farmtrac powerplant delivers 7 less HP yet lifting capacity is almost double the Deere unit.

Am I to deduce that HP and lifting capacity are unrelated? Is it solely the quality and capacity of the hydraulic pump(s) that dictate lifting capability (without regard to the associated power plant) and are the hydraulics on Deere units inferior as compared to comparable makes? Finally, I understand that lifting capacity as described on specification sheets relates to lift at the 3-point hitch. Would lift capacity (or the lack thereof) also impact use of the FEL?

As I mentioned above, I plan to drag trees from woods thus need to consider the lifting ability of any unit I purchase.

RoyJackson · May 7, 2006

The 790 and 990 are pretty old designs. Both great tractors...simple, reliable and easy to maintain. However, as they are both "Advantage" (i.e. cheap, considering their power), you get lower capacities in some ways..hydraulics, for example.

However, when you consider the weight of the implements you, as a residential non-agricultural user, will use; I think you'd find the capacities of the 790 quite adequate. The heaviest implement you will probably purchase would be a rotary cutter. A 60" cutter weighs 600-650 pounds, well under the capacity of the 790's 3 Point Hitch.

As far as dragging trees, the 790 can handle up to an 8" tree with little problem (you'll need MFWD and probably the differential lock now and then). The 790, although quite capable, is rather light (about 2200 pounds less ballast).

The 990 is obviously quite a bit more capable. You'd be able to drag larger trees and use a 72" cutter (maybe even an 84" unit).

All that said...I'd look at a 3320 Deere with the power reverser transmission. That tractor may fit your needs better...especially if you want a backhoe.

"Or should I not concern myself too much with lift capacity, because dragging trees is a job best suited for the FEL?"

You'll want to skid trees from your drawbar (steel bar with holes in it located below the rear differential). For towing, that's the strongest part of the tractor. I have used the FEL on occasion to move trees. These were lighter trunks and the only reason I did this was to prevent digging up the finished lawn I had to cross.

BTW, three things not brought up (or I missed them if they were):
1) Tire selection: if you're not going to mow a lawn with your tractor, Ag type (R-1's) would probably be your best choice for maximum traction. Make sure getting them filled is part of the deal.
2) Stall cleaning: If you're going to use your machine to clean stalls, you'll want to get a small enough machine to do that work. This, of course, would depend on the design of the barn and stalls. With 7 acres, I'd guess you're planning on having two or three horses. In that case, a suggested barn design would be the type with the stalls open directly to the corral or pasture (rather then the traditional design with the stalls off a central passageway through the barn).
3) Resale value: The Deere's will remain quite high (compared to a brand such as Farmtrac). That may not mean a thing to you, but is something to consider.

As many others have written, make this choice carefully. If you buy the wrong machine (size or power), you'll take a substantial depreciation if you try selling or trading the first two or three years (as you'd be competing against new tractors and better financing for new machines).

Good luck!

KiotiJohn · May 7, 2006

My Kioti CK20HST has a 3pt capacity of 1109 24" aft.
I have used it to haul trees as large as 24" in diameter, so I want all the lift I can get out of it.

Any major lifting like the tree trunks should be done at draw bar height, but you don't have to use the draw bar to do it. I hook a boom pole on my hitch, tie a chain around the lowest part of the pole where it mounts to the hitch arms between the arms, and lift just high enough off the ground to be about even with the draw bar. If you lift up higher, the rear tires become a fulcrum, and the tractor can quickly flip.

3pt's typically have greater lift than do FELs, and the geometry makes them better for the heavier lifting, but smaller trees could be dragged by the FEL as long as they're not over capacity, and that you keep the loader down at carry height, just off the ground basically, to avoid lifting the rear of the tractor. I don't use the FEL for dragging big tree trunks at all.

One reason not to use the FEL is that you have to mostly drag backwards, the arms are not designed for the side stresses that can occur as you maneuver the trunk around. Maybe they can take it, but they're designed for the actions of loading.

Smaller trees that can go in the bucket will be okay IN the FEL, but even then height has to be carefully considered to avoid flips and turn overs. Always going slowly and keeping the loader low is the key. A little dip in flat ground with the loader full of tree trunk could spell disaster.

This is a lot of talk to answer about lift capacity, but I think you want to get more capacity on the hitch than the 790 regardless if you're going to be doing trees.

Capacity is a funtion more of the geometry and strength of the equipment, the size of hydrualic cylinders and hoses, and the size of the pumps. HP of the tractor doesn't really have anything to do with it other than the tractor's ability to move the fluid, flow capacity.
John

Soundguy · May 8, 2006

( Am I to deduce that HP and lifting capacity are unrelated? )

Yes and no /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif..

Yes.. the tractors engine hp will ultimately set the upper limit for what the tractor could conceivable lift.. if it had a hyd pump capable of utilizing all the tractor hp needed.. and the tractor was strong enough structurally to put that hp to work.

No.. The hyd pump output characteristics , relief settings and the hyd cylinders, the geometry, and the structural integrety of the lift/loader mechanism will determin max lift on the 3pt or loader.. this assumes thate tractor engine can provide enough hp to the pump to meet or exceed the pumps requirments.. etc.

In other words.. a 95 hp tractor could have a wimpy 1500 psi 3gpm pump.. and be a quite useless loader tractor... While a 35 hp compact could have a 2500 psi 5-7 gpm pump and lift more..e tc.

Tractor weight also has alot to do with it. Lighter / small frame tractors cannot lift as much due to ballast.

Soundguy