Newbie looking to buy

[JWR]

You are likely to be inundated with advice -- my input is ...
1) Cuddle up to a dealer near you, pretty much regardless of brand. Find a dealer that has been there a long time, has a good reputation with your neighbors. Try to buy from him if at all possible.
2) 78 acres nearby and 20 that need bush hogging is a healthy load, esp for a non-tractor person. You will SOON become a tractor person ! The 50 hp size suggestion seems about right though we are short on details of what you may need.
3) I think a low hours used machine (esp bought from that good nearby dealer!) would be just as good as new for you. Low hours being 300 or so. But that is not a magic number. You need to get a firm idea of what attachments you will be using -- bush hog for sure (I do recommend new for that), etc. In most case a front end loader is something you will use way more than most realize ahead of time.

 

[jdmeth]

There isn't enough information here to provide much specific guidance. For example, a cab tractor with a 10' cutter might be ideal for open fields, but likely isn't a good choice for working in narrow woods areas. You also haven't stated a budget.

He just built new home on 60 acres and family members own adjacent land. Probably an inheritance, he can get whatever he wants. I vote JD, I have owned them for fifty years. Still have the 1971 3020 my dad bought new. I just bought a JD 1023E.

I would say unless the OP wants to play in the woods (I know I would) it would be better to hire someone with a forest mulches to do the major brush clearing and get a good gear drive tractor to maintain everything after that. I have drove both the mid sized gear drive JD and Kubota. Can't go wrong with either one.

I would suggest he watch YouTube videos about brush clearing to get an idea of what he is facing. Upstate Brush Control is in his area and has many great videos.

 

[Dennis59]

I just built a new home on 60 acres and have two family members that have 78 acres beside me. Most is wooded with trail system throughout, and about 20 acres require bush hog.

Plan is to clear a lot of thick brush/underbrush, maintain the network of trails, significant amount of landscaping work between road and house, and will plant a .25 acre garden.

A neighbor suggested a 50 HP and recommended JD out Kubota (reason was they are his favorites).

would love to hear your thoughts and recommendations. I am not mechanically inclined so thinking new would be better than used.

If you are not familiar with running a tractor I would suggest one that has Hydrostatic transmission. You should get at least one rear remote but 2 is better and cheaper if you get it at the time of purchase. A font end loader is a must. A good suspension seat either spring or air adjust. As far as brands that depends on your area dealers and how conferrable they feel in the seat.

 

[mo1]

I just built a new home on 60 acres and have two family members that have 78 acres beside me. Most is wooded with trail system throughout, and about 20 acres require bush hog.

Plan is to clear a lot of thick brush/underbrush, maintain the network of trails, significant amount of landscaping work between road and house, and will plant a .25 acre garden.

A neighbor suggested a 50 HP and recommended JD out Kubota (reason was they are his favorites).

would love to hear your thoughts and recommendations. I am not mechanically inclined so thinking new would be better than used.

It depends on what exactly you are doing. The biggest thing that you mentioned that may really determine tractor size is "landscaping work." If "landscaping work" means running a blade or box blade to level out ground, you could use a larger tractor than if it means you are driving on turf doing something like overseeding or running a lawn roller. In general you do not want to drive a very large or heavy tractor on a lawn unless it's bone dry out or you will leave noticeable ruts. What you want to do in the garden also may steer you toward a certain type/size of tractor. If all you want to do is run a rototiller with the tractor, the tractor doesn't really matter all that much as you can simply get a tiller sized for the tractor. If you want to cultivate with the tractor or run conventional tillage equipment, you may run into traction and ground clearance issues with the smaller compacts depending on what you want to do, and larger units may lack maneuverability in tight spaces or be too heavy for soft surfaces.

 

[Bobrown14]

All good advice here. Specially the words about what your intentions are. I have fields and woods with trails. I have a 52hp shuttle shift anything larger and I'd be digging up the fields. I do that now because I haven't learned when and when not to go on the grass with a 5K# tractor.

In the woods with a cab I gotta be careful. You need to walk the trails and see where the limbs are and remove them 1st and go slow. My cab is pretty tall at close to 8' so you need even more clearance for murphy.

For brush removal - depends on how hands on you are. It can be done with a grapple and a chain saw with a few helpers. You can clean up quite a bit like that - a lot of people dont want to do the work.

For the cost of a skid steer with choppers for 1 day cost I can purchase a grapple and do it myself again with a chain saw and a few friends. Dinner and beers after and hope I dont break anything works. But I can't do it as fast/efficient as a skid-steer.

They just go thru brush like a lawn mower on grass. You cant do that with a brush hog. Anything more that an 1" diameter is going to slow you to a crawl.

For your garden 50hp is perfect - get a 54" pto tiller and you're golden.

 

[BubbaSam]

Kioti is up to #3 in US CUT sales. They might be worth a look. One of the more important things to consider is, however, the Dealer. That matters.

IMO, it matters less with the Top 3. Deere is really good with their Dealers but, hoo-boy, do you ever pay for it. Kubota is always good but they're getting almost as bad as Deere. And Kioti is far from perfect but they're worth considering. Dealer matters, though.

LS had it going on but they've stumbled a bit. So many others are trying, really hard, to fill the gaps being left by the Big Boys but............

I have to totally agree! I have a 2005 Kioti CK30HST which has become my BEST FRIEND! I paid $27K when new. I know...20 years ago. My only issue is there is now no "Local" dealer. The closest now is about an hour from me and only open 4 days a week. I thought about changing brands due to that and stopped by a JD dealership. I asked for a quote with Cab and Mid-PTO. Price was $54K. Then went to a Kubota dealer who wanted to put me on a tractor with LESS HP! Again, price was high. I've stayed with Kioti until I can figure out what I want to do. The closest dealer is Massy Ferguson.

Bottom Line... even though a Kioti dealer is now 60 miles from me... the value I've received for my investment has been top notch.

Don't just buy "a tractor"... buy the dealer too!

 

[2manyrocks]

Problem is in some areas, dealers are sparse to begin with and then they come and go when they don't make it. I like the guy I bought tractors from, but two different manufacturers have pulled out from under him over the years. Parts availability and dealer support are real issues.

 

[RalphVa]

For trails you really only need 18-20 hp with a 4' bush hog. For that 20 acres, you need as big a bush hog as you're comfortable handling. It's about 5 hp/ft.

For your forest, a smaller tractor but with high clearance would be probably the best choice.

Hire a forestry mulcher to do heavy duty forest work and hire/rent a big bush hog once/yr or once every other year for the 20 acres.

Sounds as though something like a B2601 would be ideal. Mine is using about half the fuel the 3 previous JDs I had did. Lots better than JD in many ways. Use it for trails, wood chipping and snow moving (with FEL and RB). Recently got a BB for evening out rough ground after a forestry mulcher removes some dead trees and stumps.

 

[rScotty]

JD and Kubota are the most expensive. There is no available data on quality, so it basically comes down to marketing and confirmation bias. Those who own those brands are 100% sure the quality is better because they paid more and to think otherwise would mean they may have erred. Normal human approach, but in the small tractor market you are buying features and dealers. JD and Kubota have more dealers, but you only need one.

There are about a dozen CUT brands in the US (not counting 'store brands'). In no particular order: JD, Kubota. Kioti, LS, TYM, Branson, Mahindra, Yanmar. CaseIH, New Holland, Zetor, and Massey Ferguson. Bobcat (Kioti), Bad Boy (Branson), and RK (TYM) are the major rebranded labels.

Any of these will be the best if you get the best value and dealer support. Any of these will be the worst if you dont.

I doubt that the average buyer is ever going to put in the time to find hard data on quality - not on tractors any more than on any manufactured item. Quality data on manufactured items is available, but is generally ignored. And quality does cost more. A bearing designed to go 100,000 hours between failure costs substantially more than one that goes 20,000 hours.

Re-melting the crucible to adjust the alloy before the pour costs more. Machining to closer tolerances costs more. An O ring compound that is resistant to alcohol costs more. A seal with a smoother surface costs more. And they all contribute to longer life. All of these are available data points. All are critical to manufacturing and pricing. None are of much interest to the opinionated.

Simply dismissing quality because of your bias against the cost is wrong. You are allowing wishful thinking to ignore the obvious.

rScotty

 

[2manyrocks]

Problem is when the materials look the same on casual inspection, but aren't the same. A friend of mine said that the bearings he used to buy for a particular machine were fine when made in the USA, but when they outsourced overseas, the metal isn't the same at all even though they were the same part number and fit the machine. He had done so many repairs over the years that he spotted the difference.

 

[rScotty]

Problem is when the materials look the same on casual inspection, but aren't the same. A friend of mine said that the bearings he used to buy for a particular machine were fine when made in the USA, but when they outsourced overseas, the metal isn't the same at all even though they were the same part number and fit the machine. He had done so many repairs over the years that he spotted the difference.

That's right. The high quality parts don't look any different on casual inspection. That's deliberate and costs far less than actually making high quality. In fact, a really good counterfeit looks the same on a more in depth inspection too.
I know....I just replaced some precision tooling in my shop. The knock offs are so good that they even copy the inspectors signature. (Mitutoyo). But they can't copy the accuracy or quality. Not for a lessor price.

But as your friend knows, the good parts are still available...for a price. I'll bet you he finds the right parts the same way we all do - through a more in-depth inspection and more education backed with experience on what to look for. All that knowledge comes with a price, and then buying the higher quality costs more too. It applies to his bearings and to tractors too.

When the guy wrote that BS on quality being imaginary back in message #18, he makes the typical mistake of the mechanically uneducated. He assumes that good quality doesn't cost more because he wishes that were the case. It doesn't appear to be malice on his part, just a lack of understanding. The cure is more education.... & that's usually the case.

rScotty

 

[Torvy]

I doubt that the average buyer is ever going to put in the time to find hard data on quality - not on tractors any more than on any manufactured item. Quality data on manufactured items is available, but is generally ignored. And quality does cost more. A bearing designed to go 100,000 hours between failure costs substantially more than one that goes 20,000 hours.

Re-melting the crucible to adjust the alloy before the pour costs more. Machining to closer tolerances costs more. An O ring compound that is resistant to alcohol costs more. A seal with a smoother surface costs more. And they all contribute to longer life. All of these are available data points. All are critical to manufacturing and pricing. None are of much interest to the opinionated.

Simply dismissing quality because of your bias against the cost is wrong. You are allowing wishful thinking to ignore the obvious.

rScotty

You are living in a fantasy world if you think the component parts in the more expensive brands are higher quality. They let you assume your higher price is buying more than paint color and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are definitely manufacturers who use better quality parts than others, but the correlation with MSRP is mythical. You are simply paying for the added overhead of more dealerships per square mile.

Don't stop believing. Salesmen depend on you to get by.

 

[Randy Gann]

My advice is not on the tractor but on implements. Make a list of ALL possible jobs that you would need to accomplish and use this to put together a list of all the implements needed for the tasks. The main advice here is to get the implements when you get the tractor. This list should even include such things as a tooth bar for the bucket or pallet forks. This is where your neighbor and this forum can be helpful. Also consider some used implements. A non-damaged used box blade will work just as good as new one of similar quality.

 

[rScotty]

You are living in a fantasy world if you think the component parts in the more expensive brands are higher quality. They let you assume your higher price is buying more than paint color and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are definitely manufacturers who use better quality parts than others, but the correlation with MSRP is mythical. You are simply paying for the added overhead of more dealerships per square mile.

Don't stop believing. Salesmen depend on you to get by.

Well, I think it is sad if that is your view of the world.... and doubly sad because I believe it's wrong.

But I do wish you would back off on promoting your views as gospel to the tractor newbies.
Or at least point out that your views aren't gospel, they are just bias compounded with your own wishful thinking as a prospective buyer.

Luckily for the rest of us, the world does not entirely revolve around financial issues, MSRP, low cost bidders and cut rate suppliers. Yes, they exist; but so do the makers who value quality..... and yes they do generally cost more. Learn how to judge value. It's a useful skill.

There is plenty of data on quality. It's all around us rural people. Just take a look at what the experienced old timer farmers & ranchers are buying for their own use. Then ask yourself why.

rScotty

 

[Randy Gann]

Concerning the 20 acres to bush hog. To save yourself the effort, ask around with neighbors to find out if any local farmers would be willing to raise hay on this 20 acres. This also could be a way to make a little income from this acreage. Even if you don’t get any income from the arrangement this would be better than spending your time, fuel and wear and tear on equipment to mow 20 acres.

 

[Torvy]

Well, I think it is sad if that is your view of the world.... and doubly sad because I believe it's wrong.

But I do wish you would back off on promoting your views as gospel to the tractor newbies.
Or at least point out that your views aren't gospel, they are just bias compounded with your own wishful thinking as a prospective buyer.

Luckily for the rest of us, the world does not entirely revolve around financial issues, MSRP, low cost bidders and cut rate suppliers. Yes, they exist; but so do the makers who value quality..... and yes they do generally cost more. Learn how to judge value. It's a useful skill.

There is plenty of data on quality. It's all around us rural people. Just take a look at what the experienced old timer farmers & ranchers are buying for their own use. Then ask yourself why.

rScotty

Sorry man. I grew up in the business. The overhead costs of advertising and salaries for marketing, properties and the like are why the costs are higher for the 'prime' brands. They are not using the higher quality parts, that is just wishful thinking.

I am all about value, not price. I see where companies cut corners and where they spend. All views on the internet are opinions based on experience mine and yours included.

There is a great deal of data out there showing confirmation bias and how the most popular brands (of many different products) are not the best products, they are the better marketed products. Marketing convinces people that higher prices = better quality. While higher costs are often associated with higher quality components, higher prices do not ensure you are getting them.

I'll be happy to stop telling people my truth as soon as people like you stop lying to people about expensive brands being better. Just because you believe, does not make it true. I am truly sorry you have been duped. People get paid millions to keep you believing.

 

[rScotty]

Sorry man. I grew up in the business. The overhead costs of advertising and salaries for marketing, properties and the like are why the costs are higher for the 'prime' brands. They are not using the higher quality parts, that is just wishful thinking.

I am all about value, not price. I see where companies cut corners and where they spend. All views on the internet are opinions based on experience mine and yours included.

There is a great deal of data out there showing confirmation bias and how the most popular brands (of many different products) are not the best products, they are the better marketed products. Marketing convinces people that higher prices = better quality. While higher costs are often associated with higher quality components, higher prices do not ensure you are getting them.

I'll be happy to stop telling people my truth as soon as people like you stop lying to people about expensive brands being better. Just because you believe, does not make it true. I am truly sorry you have been duped. People get paid millions to keep you believing.

So now I am lying to people? You have sure gone some distance tryig to justify a world that works in the way you want it to be. A world that doesn't have any difference in quality, but only in perception. A world in which your desire to find a cheap tractor makes them all equal.
That's ok by me. Your not understanding doesn't make it false.

And your not understanding doesn't make me a liar.

There is so much more to the real world than your tiny financial and advertising part of the pie. Take a look at the world around you and you will see that some seed, lumber, tools, cars, appliances, clothing, houses, medical care, education, and gear of every type comes in a range of quality and prices. Some things are simply made from the start to be better quality than others.

People like to make things. But they do it for different reasons. Corporations have personalities just as people do. Some will manufacture to compete on price while others prefer to complete on quality.
And yes, making something of better quality does make it cost more.
I can't always afford high quality, but that doesn't make me pretend it doesn't exist.
rScotty

 

[DGZRT]

Concerning the 20 acres to bush hog. To save yourself the effort, ask around with neighbors to find out if any local farmers would be willing to raise hay on this 20 acres. This also could be a way to make a little income from this acreage. Even if you don’t get any income from the arrangement this would be better than spending your time, fuel and wear and tear on equipment to mow 20 acres.

This is exactly what we do to our front 25 acres. He pays us enough to cover out taxes and keeps the field looking perfect . If you go this route be careful on picking the farmer ! Make sure you can work with him and ask him how he fertilizers. I say this because we have a very large farm 5 miles away that milks probably a thousand head . I found out part of the reason he offers slightly more money is because he spreads his waste over the fields . Not sure I could stand the stink every weekend. Good luck you will get many pages of advice! Any Tractor you buy will cut your workload in half and you will find it’s great therapy! Have your siblings pitch in for the implements because they will want to use your tractor!

 

[Torvy]

So now I am lying to people? You have sure gone some distance tryig to justify a world that works in the way you want it to be. A world that doesn't have any difference in quality, but only in perception. A world in which your desire to find a cheap tractor makes them all equal.
That's ok by me. Your not understanding doesn't make it false.

And your not understanding doesn't make me a liar.

There is so much more to the real world than your tiny financial and advertising part of the pie. Take a look at the world around you and you will see that some seed, lumber, tools, cars, appliances, clothing, houses, medical care, education, and gear of every type comes in a range of quality and prices. Some things are simply made from the start to be better quality than others.

People like to make things. But they do it for different reasons. Corporations have personalities just as people do. Some will manufacture to compete on price while others prefer to complete on quality.
And yes, making something of better quality does make it cost more.
I can't always afford high quality, but that doesn't make me pretend it doesn't exist.
rScotty

The problem is not high quality, it is the false perception that higher prices entails higher quality.

Price, Quality, and Value

Whenever you are thinking about buying something, price plays a role in your decision process. How do you use price to make judgments of quality and value?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[rScotty]

The problem is not high quality, it is the false perception that higher prices entails higher quality.

Psychology Today: Health, Help, Happiness + Find a Therapist

View the latest from the world of psychology: from behavioral research to practical guidance on relationships, mental health and addiction. Find help from our directory of therapists, psychologists and counselors.

www.psychologytoday.com

You have inverted what I said and now have it backwards.
I never said that higher prices causes higher quality.
What I said is that higher quality costs more.
Unfortunately, higher quality does cause higher prices. Not the reverse.
And the same is true throughout the mechanical manufacturing world.

Your world view seems to be built around perception.
Mine leans more toward the factual & mechanical.

What we are trying to do here is help people who have asked for help choosing which tractor to buy. There are certainly valid reasons for any price range. One of those reasons is that quality costs more to make.
If course everyone would like for the same quality to be available at a lower price, but by restricting yourself to lower prices you are missing something that may be important...or not.
rScotty