Backhoe newbie with 1301d looking for backhoe attachment ideas

[wizkidzulu]

Hey guys (and any gals), I just bought a 1301d and want to make sure that I learn as much as I can. I have a bulldog 282 FEL and a box blade attached. Looking to get a backhoe attachment, any suggestions?

 

[California]

I hope somebody else has better news, but my BH is about as small as I would want to use, and it's heavy enough (750 lbs??) that my larger Yanmar grunts when it picks it up. It's a US made hoe that was sold specifically for my model Yanmar (US equivalent of YM2000) and also sold by Kubota under their label, for their similar size tractors.

This model hoe has the swing hinge, and therfor the weight, as close to the tractor as possible. I think my 3-point is rated 1400 lbs, but that doesn't consider how far out a hoe's weight is.

Here's a link
to a thread I posted that has a photo, description, and links to other related threads. Or search 'K650' for more.

Good luck on your search. And please keep posting. I and several others would like to know of a hoe suitable for the smaller Yanmars.

 

[YM-135trac]

I hope somebody else has better news, but my BH is about as small as I would want to use, and it's heavy enough (750 lbs??) that my larger Yanmar grunts when it picks it up. It's a US made hoe that was sold specifically for my model Yanmar (US equivalent of YM2000) and also sold by Kubota under their label, for their similar size tractors.

This model hoe has the swing hinge, and therfor the weight, as close to the tractor as possible. I think my 3-point is rated 1400 lbs, but that doesn't consider how far out a hoe's weight is.

Here's a link
to a thread I posted that has a photo, description, and links to other related threads. Or search 'K650' for more.

Good luck on your search. And please keep posting. I and several others would like to know of a hoe suitable for the smaller Yanmars.

California, My ym760 hoe(made in Canada for US market) uses "swing hinge"
(to swing boom) Ive had a lot of trouble with the double chain/cylinder/ boom swing binding/breaking. I just weld back together, and use care in No jerking when swinging,but a heaping bucket of heavy clay(no jerking) broke it again last time.
So full buckets scoops are out now.24" bucket does't help either. Thats what it came with. It digs good once you learn to use boom/dipper/bucket all at the same time and does't put as much strain on tractor. Does your "swing
hinge" give you problems? I would replace w/double cyl(kabota style) in a heart-beat on my good litle digger,but res/tank right behind chain/swing cylinder(no room for butt of cyl)& would have to relocate tank?but where? any Ideas would be helpful?

 

[LMTC]

Hey guys (and any gals), I just bought a 1301d and want to make sure that I learn as much as I can. I have a bulldog 282 FEL and a box blade attached. Looking to get a backhoe attachment, any suggestions?

Don't. That's a serious and sincere suggestion.

 

[YM-135trac]

Hey guys (and any gals), I just bought a 1301d and want to make sure that I learn as much as I can. I have a bulldog 282 FEL and a box blade attached. Looking to get a backhoe attachment, any suggestions?

wiz kid,B/hoe is nice. better put your best/Sunday/engineer cap on for that project. A 2min. or less learn/practice session with your new toy could/would make you wish you stayed in bed that day.California uses 3pt. mount on his? Never saw a good pic on his?

LMTC-exellent advice,but not impossible

wiz kid, If somehow, you could conquer the engineering feats below and carefully develop operating skills and never make an operating mistake, I guess It would be ok?

Undercarrage build:1- remove as much stress on top-link(diff housing) as possible and and put it as far to the front of tractor as possible.2-bridge trans housing and transfer all/most stress from trans housing to such bridge/frame.
3- never lose footing(air space btw foot&ground) on o/riggers when digging.(I don't know how Califonia's 3pt. mount gets away with it.)
4- always be aware, at all times, that this toy, it's no stump ripper...I'ts a TOY!

I got a ym760 hoe with(factory) undercarrage that I had to beef-up(up-re-engineer) when I bought my 226d in 2 pieces(broke back ) years ago. DEAL$ The trans housing was only $1000 back then(hate to see todays co$t?)+ various Bearings and other little-stuf,but lucky no gear$.

5- If your engineering fails while digging,with the forces at the end of the boom,and you in the operator seat you may be/will be smushed like a bug or make you think you got hung-up in a bear trap somehow btw trac&hoe. this is just a long answer to LMTC response.

 

[California]

California, My ym760 hoe(made in Canada for US market) uses "swing hinge" (to swing boom) Ive had a lot of trouble with the double chain/cylinder/ boom swing binding/breaking. I just weld back together, and use care in No jerking when swinging, but a heaping bucket of heavy clay(no jerking) broke it again last time.
So full buckets scoops are out now.24" bucket does't help either. It digs good once you learn to use boom/dipper/bucket all at the same time and doesn't put as much strain on tractor. Does your "swing hinge" give you problems?

Not yet! I bought this from a 'gentleman farmer' who said he used it for a short time but 'never got the hang of it' so he put it away in the barn. I wondered if that meant he broke it.

I see a professional looking weld between the swing-chain tip assembly, and the slider carriage that moves in that slot. See
http://s93445617.onlinehome.us/pix/ym240/backhoe/Kubota650backhoe/medium/P1110946-003.jpg
http://s93445617.onlinehome.us/pix/ym240/backhoe/Kubota650backhoe/medium/P1110965-009.jpg
- the black block 2" square next to my tiedown chain. After noticing that weld and feeling the inertia of a swinging boom, I've been cautious to not be jerky when swinging it. Is this where yours broke?

Mine came with a 9 inch bucket, and it's model 650, 6.5 ft depth. Hopefully this lesser weight and size means it's within the capacity of that swing chain design.

After reading your post I'm going to be even more careful to swing the boom gently! It's obvious that swing inertia can cause far more stress compared to nudging a pile of backfill back into the trench. Do you think that also risks damage?

 

[California]

...California uses 3pt. mount on his? Never saw a good pic on his?

I posted a couple of threads here with photos while I was investigating the purchase and after I had it in use.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...03335-kubota-mystery-backhoe-does-anyone.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...or-freight-back-hoe-trencher.html#post1302484
Here's some more pix on my family website. K650 backhoe

Undercarrage build:1- remove as much stress on top-link(diff housing) as possible and and put it as far to the front of tractor as possible.2-bridge trans housing and transfer all/most stress from trans housing to such bridge/frame.
3- never lose footing(air space btw foot&ground) on o/riggers when digging.
(I don't know how California's 3pt. mount gets away with it.)

Yes, mine is simply 3 point mount. The Kubota manual that came with it makes no mention of an undercarriage. My heavy Great Bend loader has frame rails that go clear back and are welded to the towbar bracket, so the 'fold-in-half' stress is dealt with. I always keep the hoe feet down to absorb the stress of digging. At first I rolled the loader to full dump and set it down, like the big boys, to resist the pull of the hoe. Then after thinking about stresses, I now roll the loader back and set its heel down (enough drag so the tractor won't roll away) and usually dig with the brakes off - so the hoe's feet carry all the digging stress.

I got a ym760 hoe with(factory) undercarrage that I had to beef-up(up-re-engineer) when I bought my 226d in 2 pieces(broke back ) years ago. DEAL$ The trans housing was only $1000 back then(hate to see todays co$t?)+ various Bearings and other little-stuf,but lucky no gear$.

5- If your engineering fails while digging,with the forces at the end of the boom,and you in the operator seat you may be/will be smushed like a bug or make you think you got hung-up in a bear trap somehow btw trac&hoe. this is just a long answer to LMTC response.

Listen to YM-135trac and LMTC. They are telling you that trial and error design can kill you.

4- always be aware, at all times, that this toy, it's no stump ripper...I'ts a TOY!

Hey, I bought it to rip stumps. But the ones in my orchard are old and rotten. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...backhoe-does-anyone-p1120054rbachhoestump.jpg
I'm also using it to run water and drainage lines. it's great for stumps and pipe trenches. With a 9 inch bucket, I doubt I'll ever dig a basement or swimming pool. This thing is essentially a common garden shovel with 24hp pushing it.

And it's a great toy!

 

[YM-135trac]

California, Quote:I see a professional looking weld between the swing-chain tip assembly, and the slider carriage that moves in that slot. (see the first photo in this post - the black block 2" square next to my tiedown chain). After noticing that weld and feeling the inertia of a swinging boom, I've been cautious to not be jerky when swinging it. Is this where yours broke? Exactly! at the end of the chain. I lay-off the cafeine and use my best sunday cheaters to put the best professional weld that I am able to do when I made those welding repairs. Lot's of stress there? Your 1st photo post showed some harb/freight junk? I dug further into the thread and found another of your pics of hoe in a trailer, towed by a little car. My swing chain rig is different. Yours uses a sprocket?(kind of dark in pic)centered on the king-pin with chain connect to block on end of ram?(can't tell w/pic)? I'll try to discribe my rig. Instead of a sprocket on top of the king-pin, mine has a half-barrel(half-a-pipe like) lower on the king-pin(a little above your bottom king-pin pivot point). The cyl has push/pull rams on both ends of cyl(like PS cyl but bigger) chains attach to both ends of cyl/barrel>wrap around the king-pin(half pipe thing)>to chain-tension adjust bolts>then bolts, hard mounts to frame. Over tite chain-It's gona pop chain/too loose it's going to bind around(half pipe thing) and pop chain. It sucks.and the res/tank is 2" behind all this mess. It's gota plus though, I never would loan/rent this rig to the Buds. I like your design better than mine. As for other stuff, I mostly gently use swing for back-fil when dipper is tucked closer to tractor, lucky swing stalls w/full extended boom/dipper& does't break d*m chain. Be careful w/push-pull back-fil too,puts lotsa stress on out-riggers.(your encased o/riggers looks stronger than mine)When digging, I use dipper/bucket-curl w/tiny dn force on boom all at the same time, as to not pull on those o/riggers. Only cleaning ditch/hole-bottom, do I use pull action, dipper/boom/combo pulling loose dirt only. mine is 7.5 dpt w/24" bkt(wish I had smaller bkt sometimes) 24" bkt has increased/honed my digging skills for sure. I never dreamed I could scoop a full struck bkt in one smooth action when I first got the thing,but I can now maybe thats all farmer meant? I really thought mine was an imitation/ unuseful toy before I learned to use it! I almost sold it,glad I didn't. 6.5&9" bktcan create lotsa damage& is plenty handy

Another pic of my swing chain comes to mind, I remember old JCV B/hoe had a swing or offset(can't remember)chains but much bigger w/big chains swinging the boom or sliding boom king-pin side-to-side for 0 clearance?


Oh,How you get all that transfered digging force off top link on 3PH(dif housing) w/3pt hook-up?...I suppose you got arms tying bottom arms to center link somehow(disabling up/down motion on 3ph)&lock-out 3pt control lever? but that don't give that trans housing a break. You got that tranny housing struted-in/re-inforced somehow?

Edit:Great Bend loader has frame rails that go clear back and are welded to the towbar bracket.
Oh I see. What about 3ph hook-up? arms tied to centerlink? what holds bottom arms down?

 

[YM-135trac]

I posted a couple of threads here with photos while I was investigating the purchase and after I had it in use.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...03335-kubota-mystery-backhoe-does-anyone.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...or-freight-back-hoe-trencher.html#post1302484
Here's some more pix on my family website. K650 backhoe
Yes, mine is simply 3 point mount. The Kubota manual that came with it makes no mention of an undercarriage. My heavy Great Bend loader has frame rails that go clear back and are welded to the towbar bracket, so the 'fold-in-half' stress is dealt with. I always keep the hoe feet down to absorb the stress of digging. At first I rolled the loader to full dump and set it down, like the big boys, to resist the pull of the hoe. Then after thinking about stresses, I now roll the loader back and set its heel down (enough drag so the tractor won't roll away) and usually dig with the brakes off - so the hoe's feet carry all the digging stress.

Listen to YM-135trac and LMTC. They are telling you that trial and error design can kill you.

Hey, I bought it to rip stumps. But the ones in my orchard are old and rotten. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...backhoe-does-anyone-p1120054rbachhoestump.jpg
I'm also using it to run water and drainage lines. it's great for stumps and pipe trenches. With a 9 inch bucket, I doubt I'll ever dig a basement or swimming pool. This thing is essentially a common garden shovel with 24hp pushing it.

And it's a great toy!

Yes, I float/rest front bucket firmly on ground and let o/riggers take the heat, full dump bkt mashed into ground makes nice firm footing,Maybe firm enough to rip tractor into? Stump digging+novice+Toy tractor(although useful TOY)= broke tractor&possible broke tractor operator. I don't recomend digging stumps to anybody here,too many variables?
That stump pic reminds me why I wish I had a smaller bucket sometimes.
Digging rotten stumps out of sandy loam(nice looking soil by the way)is what sales brochures are made of I mount my little yanny hoe to a DIY drawbar attachment thing&centerlink mount I made for my 6000# IH 584 Red Beast and dig native pecan tap roots(20'deep&more), well actually, around main stump in semi heavy clay soil. Thats the boys-men division thing for sure. surface roots are kinda tough to get threw. Then rap long cable around tap root and hook ea cable end to a tractor pull w/one tractor and braking w/another tractor then oposite,w/cable action sawing tap root faster than you would think. and you get a nice shiny cable when you're done.

 

[California]

My swing chain rig is different. Yours uses a sprocket? I like your design better ...

Be careful w/push-pull back-fill, puts lotsa stress on out-riggers.(your encased o/riggers looks stronger than mine)

How you get all that transfered digging force off top link on 3PH?...I suppose you got arms tying bottom arms to center link (disabling up/down motion on 3ph)&lock-out 3pt control lever?
but that don't give that trans housing a break. You got that tranny housing strutted-in/reinforced?
Edit: Great Bend loader has frame rails that go clear back and are welded to the towbar bracket. Oh I see.

What about 3ph hook-up? what holds bottom arms down?

I went out and took a picture and posted it over in my hoe-description thread, with a copy below.

Since this hoe was sold together with YM240 by Yanmar-USA I assume somebody engineered the stress analysis. My GB loader sub-chassis further improves stiffness, so I think I'm ok. And it doesn't have the muscle that your larger hoe has.

What keeps the BH assembly from rising if I push the bucket down is its weight and the 'restrainers' just ahead of its 3-point pins. Here's my photo from the other thread. The three-point arms bear down on those restrainers. There are no modifications on the tractor, and my installation is as specified in Kubota's manual that came with the hoe.

Aside from that stiffer top link, the 'restrainers' are what absorbs stress. Most of the stress bears on the hoe assembly, not the tractor.

Likewise the stabilizers. I make the bh stabilizers take all the stress, by parking the tractor with its brakes off. I would much rather weld on the BH than replace a ripped out upper link bracket on top of the transmission, or a broken 3 point pin beneath the transmission.

I put slightly more information in the post containing the original of that photo.

I had been dreaming of a bigger hoe, but you just talked me out of it! My rig will do what I need, and it sounds like the next larger size is a tractor-destroyer. Was your Yanmar 7.5 ft hoe sold original with your 226D?

wizkidzulu, please forgive us! We didn't intend to hijack your thread. I hope this information is useful to you, particularly YM-135trac's description of his monster hoe that already folded up one tractor and may have injured the operator. Have we talked you out of a backhoe yet? Please tell us more about your rig, and your application. Do you have some photos?