Nitrogen--my experience

[Baucom]

I wonder how much these shops that do Nitrogen fills charge (if any) to adjust tire pressures when 1 is low, or when seasons change? Seems like a good way to keep customers coming back, since they wouldn't want to lose the "benefits" of their pricey Nitrogen fill by adjusting pressures using a regular air compressor that contaminates their Nitrogen with Oxygen, water, etc.

 

[redharley]

As a fleet mechanic we have tried Nitrogen and have noted no positive improvements or none negative just the cost of the equipment. Now don't forget since it's October now is the time to replace that summer air in all those tire's with winter Air.Maybe that should be a new post.

 

[jcmseven]

Baucom,

The tire shop which I mention does not charge for "refills." In fact, when doing my "experiment" I actually had them "top off" one tire with two pounds of the good stuff to make it consistent with the pressure the tire had when filled with plain air, because I wanted to make sure I was comparing the pressures as close as I humanly could. Unfortunately, not everyone is so lucky. One local car dealership charges customers thirty bucks to top off any one tire they originally filled for 50. Their logic, so as it is, is that they have to purge the tire of the old nitrogen and place new in it. Thankfully, they can do it the second time more efficiently, so they charge less. What?????

I hope this post was helpful. I debated about posting it because I did not want to be seen as a fool for researching something that everyone already knew about. I hope that is not the case. I figured if I could save one person some dollars by not spending for a service which seems largely (at least in the discussed facet) based on junk science in this application at least and perhaps to some degree greed (in some cases) or herd mentality I would do some good for someone. Maybe this is not worthy of discussion in all locales, but where I live, with the number of people trying to save the whales and fuel and all that, there are a large number of cars and trucks out there being driven by people who spent money, sometimes a lot, that they did not apparently need to spend.

John M

 

[Baucom]

I think it's awesome that you went to the trouble to gather your data and share it with us. I'd hope no one here would think you a fool for doing that.

 

[brandoro]

I fill my own tires with good fresh northern air, has worked well for me for several decades. It is time to put the winter air in since there is a bit of snow on the ground, I should do that tomorrow.
One of the things I read about 'nitrogen' filled tires was that they would lose pressure more slowly than 'air' filled tires because the oxygen molecule is so much smaller than the nitrogen molecule. Seems to me that if I am patient and just keep topping up my tires eventually I will end up with nearly pure nitrogen too because all of those little oxygen molecules will have made their escape.

 

[Steve C]

Fellow Posters:


John M

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with us.

Most of us do the best we can to take care of our equipment and it is good to know that the money might be better spent on other maintenance items.

The one thing nobody has yet mentioned is the danger to human life that nitrogen presents.

I worked in the chemical processing and nuclear field for 35+ years.

One of the worse accidents we ever had on the Midland Nuclear project during construction was due to a nitrogen rich atmosphere inside the borated water storage tank. Three men were killed. They entered the tank, passed out and died. The men that followed them in and tried to save them were also killed.

If you get a snoot full of pure nitrogen, your brain sends a signal to your lungs to stop breathing. That is a very bad thing. You will colapse in a heap very soon. If you are on a ladder 20 foot off the floor your chances are zero. If you are standing on a concrete slab unless someone is around to admisister CPR and force an oxygen mixture into your lungs, you are going to die. I doesn't matter if you are in a room that is full of normal air. One snoot full and you are probably going to end up dead because you will quit breathing.

The risk of this is very remote, but if you happen to pull the valve stem out of a tire that is filled with pure nitrogen, such as to do a tire change and you happen to inhale with your nose close to the nitrogen stream, you could be in big trouble. You want to have your breathing equipment as far away as possible when handling Nitrogen.

 

[Tig]

Thank you John M for sharing your experience.
I would not deal with anyone who would provide this service. It shows that they will take any money they can from you regardless of the premise. I first heard of nitrogen on race car tires in 1990. I didn't get it then I don't get it now. Not sure what NASCAR is thinking other than it's a safe gas to have around in compressed form since it will not feed a fire.
Reminds me of the mythbusters episode debunking the helium filled football. Interesting theory until you think about it for a while.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I never did graduate from college and I saw that one coming.

Air is Air. Nitrogen will leak out of the same holes and gaps plain ole air will.

Air is Air and will not make a ride softer.

Air is Air and will not make a tire rounder for better mileage.

I know they have suckered the whole world into bottled water ( I'm still not over that one ) but now they want to sell us designer air.

Who is this guy I want to shake his hand, right after I shake the hand of the guy that invented the PET ROCK.

To think I work hard every day and people are selling water, air and rocks and making more than me.

Hey I just thought no one has thought of selling canned dirt yet have they, there might be hope for me yet.

 

[jcmseven]

Cat Driver,

I should mention again that I was suspicous also. This is why I insisted that it be done without fee. These guys know I have a lot of equipment and know many people, so I figure they were thinking I would fall to the power of suggestion and come back wanting all my tires filled (some people have done this); in fact, just that day they had apparently filled a customer's batwing mower, which I believe has 10+ tires on the big ones. I did not fall to that power of suggestion, but was game to try it and gather some data myself because I found it interesting and it gave me a chance to drive my truck more. Thus, this thread.

With regard to the dirt sale, that is a great idea. I am packing some jars of my back yard dirt right now. It's been selling great for its profound and mysterious healing powers. Just don't ask me what they are.

John M

 

[Scooby074]

A little more info about proper uses and benefits of dry Nitrogen. Besides no water to freeze or expand its inert, so in the case of overheated brakes on aircraft (or race cars) it wont fan the flames (or explode). Unless you drive a F1 car or a Airbus, this wont apply to you

Most aircraft manufacturers demand that Nitrogen be used.
Quote:

87-08-09 AIRBUS INDUSTRIE, BOEING, BRITISH AEROSPACE, LOCKHEED, AND MCDONNELL DOUGLAS: Amendment 39-5613. Applies to Airbus Industries Models A300 and A310; Boeing Models 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767; British Aerospace Models BAe 146 and BAC 1-11; Lockheed Model L-1011; and McDonnell Douglas Models DC-8, DC-9 (includes MD-80 series), and DC-10; certificated in any category.

To eliminate the possibility of a chemical reaction between atmospheric oxygen and volatile gases from the tire inner liner producing a tire explosion, accomplish the following, unless already accomplished:

A. Within 180 days after the effective date of this AD, to ensure that all aircraft tires mounted on braked wheels do not contain more than 5 percent oxygen by volume, accomplish paragraph 1. or 2., below. Either of these procedures is acceptable, or they may be used together:

1. Install a placard, either in each wheel well or on or near each landing gear strut incorporating braked wheels, and in a location so as to be easily seen and readable by a person performing routine tire servicing. This placard shall state "INFLATE TIRES WITH NITROGEN ONLY." The words "SERVICE" or "FILL" may be substituted for the word "INFLATE".

2. Incorporate into the FAA-approved maintenance program procedures that include the following items:

a. On braked wheels, install only tires that have been inflated with dry nitrogen or other gases shown to be inert such that the gas mixture does not exceed 5 percent oxygen by volume.

b. Tires on braked wheels may be serviced with air at remote locations where dry nitrogen is not available, provided that:

i. the oxygen content does not exceed 5 percent by volume; or

ii. within the next 15 hours time-in-service, the tire must be purged of air and inflated with dry nitrogen so that the oxygen does not exceed 5 percent by volume.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/55850E6389EFBA3C8625695B006723A3?OpenDocument&Highlight=87-08-09