3-Point Hitch No Hydraulics at 3 PT or Remotes

[jbain]

Hi, I have no hydraulics at the 3 PT or remotes. Here are the symptoms:

1. FEL works no issues.
2. 3 PT gradually lifts if the tractor operates for 15-30 minutes i.e. I put the lever to the full raise position while operating. Will not lift when tractor is first started.
3. No pressure at the remotes when tractor is first started. Don't know what the pressure is when operated and the 3 PT comes up.
4. Checked the Hydraulic block relief valve by removing and cleaning seems okay.
5. Replaced all the O rings in the MLS valve and checked to see if anything was sticking.
6. I don't hear the relief noise when operating the remotes dead headed.
7. I just put a new FEL valve on the tractor.

Will continue to trouble shoot i.e. check to see if I can hear relief valve operating when operating the remotes when the 3 PT comes up.

Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.

 

[K5lwq]

So 3pt and remotes worked before installing new loader valve?

Sounds like you don't have the power beyond plug installed or have the hoses connected to the wrong ports.

 

[jbain]

I discovered a new symptom, the FEL valve is working the 3 PT so I must have the FEL valve hooked up incorrectly.

 

[jbain]

So 3pt and remotes worked before installing new loader valve?

Sounds like you don't have the power beyond plug installed or have the hoses connected to the wrong ports.

Yes that seems to be the issue. The 3 PT was working before the FEL valve was replaced I just never noticed it as I did not operate the 3 PT.

 

[K5lwq]

You will figure it out. Post some pictures and the info on the valve you installed if you need some more help. Good luck! :thumbsup:

 

[jbain]

You will figure it out. Post some pictures and the info on the valve you installed if you need some more help. Good luck! :thumbsup:

Thanks, it's a Prince valve and I made the mistake of hooking it up the way the original valve was that used the power beyond. I don't know why the power beyond was hooked up on the old valve??

 

[ptsg]

Seems that you're missing the Power beyond plug on the new valve.

You need this PB plug on the PB port of the new valve. Other wise the flow will bypass internally directly to the tank port. Maybe the PB plug from the old valve works on the new one.

 

[K5lwq]

What Ptsg said.

You must use power beyond to feed the remotes and 3pt. The plug blocks flow from tank and sends it to the other valves. You can not just take the tank line to the other valves because your new valve will not handle the back pressure without going through PB.

 

[jbain]

Seems that you're missing the Power beyond plug on the new valve.

You need this PB plug on the PB port of the new valve. Other wise the flow will bypass internally directly to the tank port. Maybe the PB plug from the old valve works on the new one.

View attachment 591031

I was using the PB plug with the new FEL valve but had not remotes or 3 PT. I took out he PB plug and just capped it. Plugged the hydraulic block and now every thing works.

 

[jbain]

What Ptsg said.

You must use power beyond to feed the remotes and 3pt. The plug blocks flow from tank and sends it to the other valves. You can not just take the tank line to the other valves because your new valve will not handle the back pressure without going through PB.

I'm confused. What if I had no FEL?

 

[jbain]

This is what the FEL valve instructions read:

PB would be used if a valve is to be added downstream.

I have no valve downstream. Still can't figure out why it was hooked up on the old valve?

 

[ptsg]

The PB plug varies from valve to valve though. The old one might not work on the new valve.

The valves downstream are the remotes and 3 pt. So you'll definitely need PB. If you power the downstream valves using the tank line from the loader valve, you risk blowing the seals on the new valve. Worst case scenario you can blow the pump also, as the relief valve have the exhaust side under pressure and can't relieve the pressure to the tank. So it's basically dead heading the pump.

Please take a couple of pictures so we can help and advise you better.

 

[K5lwq]

This is what the FEL valve instructions read:

PB would be used if a valve is to be added downstream.

I have no valve downstream. Still can't figure out why it was hooked up on the old valve?

If you did not have a loader then the flow would go directly to your remote valve then to your 3pt hitch. To add a loader valve, flow goes to loader valve then to remote valve and on to 3pt hitch.

I sent you a PM with my number. Feel free to call and I will explain it better.

 

[jbain]

If you did not have a loader then the flow would go directly to your remote valve then to your 3pt hitch. To add a loader valve, flow goes to loader valve then to remote valve and on to 3pt hitch.

I sent you a PM with my number. Feel free to call and I will explain it better.

View attachment 591069View attachment 591069

Attached is a diagram of the hydraulic block where the FEL connects. The PB was connected to A line where the ? is.

 

[K5lwq]

View attachment 591069View attachment 591069

Attached is a diagram of the hydraulic block where the FEL connects. The PB was connected to A line where the ? is.

That would be what I would think. You have to install the PB plug(adapter) in the new loader valve and connect it the same way the old valve was connected. This will allow your remotes and 3pt work without damaging your new valve or your pump. Any other configuration will result in very costly failures.

When you finish you should have a line feeding the valve, a line going to return, and a line to the PB port on the diverter block.

 

[ptsg]

Now we're getting somewhere. I didn't realize that Kioti uses a slightly different hydraulic block than most brands, although it's easier to change when needed.

I attached a picture of the diagram and I added the connections there.



However you have to change the slit to the D position, so the flow will go through the loader valve, then out from the PB port to feed the remotes and 3 pt.

 

[jbain]

Thanks guys will give it a try.

 

[jbain]

Well, this is a very confusing thing to deal with. I being told if I don't use the PB I will damage my hydraulic system. How does the PB/FEL valve control pressure over the pressure control valve in the hydraulic block? I have attached the hydraulic block diagram again. The item in the bottom diagram between the input B and the return is the pressure regulating valve for the entire hydraulic system regardless if there is a FEL or not. The FEL has a pressure relief valve too that protects it form over pressure. See attached.

I checked the setup and the spool valve in the top diagram is in the vertical position as stated in the instructions for installing a FEL. I don't have the PB hose hooked up and the port in the hydraulic block is plugged. The instructions never mentions the PB connection.

There must be a error in the manual about the position of the spool valve and or the lack of a PB connection.

Currently the remotes and FEL works with the system setup as described above. The system pressure control valve should maintain the pressure and the FEL pressure relief works.

View attachment 591220

 

[K5lwq]

I am sorry you find it confusing. It really is not that bad. In the Prince PDF you posted it clearly tells you to use PB to power anything after the loader valve. The hydraulic block is a diverter valve that diverts flow from the remotes and 3pt to the loader valve. Therefore, the remote and 3pt become downstream valves requiring you use PB.

If you insist on not using PB and feeding the remote and 3pt with the tank line and PB plugged, please update this thread when the valve fails. It would be interesting to see how long it takes before seeing a failure.

 

[jbain]

I am sorry you find it confusing. It really is not that bad. In the Prince PDF you posted it clearly tells you to use PB to power anything after the loader valve. The hydraulic block is a diverter valve that diverts flow from the remotes and 3pt to the loader valve. Therefore, the remote and 3pt become downstream valves requiring you use PB.

If you insist on not using PB and feeding the remote and 3pt with the tank line and PB plugged, please update this thread when the valve fails. It would be interesting to see how long it takes before seeing a failure.

Please answer this:

Why are you calling the pressure line the "tank line"? I would think the tank line would be the return line.

What valve is going to fail?

Where does the hydraulic pressure come from when there is no FEL?

Thanks,