No wonder drugs are so expensive...

GrantMO · May 30, 2001

Our ability to sue anyone for anything anytime with little, if any, punishment for frivolous lawsuits is a freedom we all end up paying for. Higher costs for everything are the result. I'm willing to give up some of that "freedom" and take responsibility for my own actions.

BobT · May 30, 2001

DrDan,

You make many good points, which I agree with mainly. However, lawsuits against drug companies a) are of no more financial impact on the companies than a flea bite to an elephant, and b) are not even remotely the cause of high drug prices. Just go to Yahoo Finance and look up the details of the profits of these drug companies. Usually a small amount if someone dies. I am not familiar with the issues oin implants. Yes, if the women were fully informed, then the law has provision to affix some of the blame to them. However, if the manufacturer lied or mis-represented the product and potential harm, they are liable for higher judgements.

These drug companies are the richest companies on earth. And they are also the greediest companies on earth. It is just so much fluff and bluster that they claim they have to "make up" for their big costs and lawsuits.

The so-called AIDS "cocktail" costs--from US drug companies--about $20,000 per year. It is available in India (where a great many drugs are manufactured for the US market by the way) -- the exact some concoction--for about $800 a year. But, is it against the LAW for me to order it from India (note: I don't need it; I do not have AIDS, just an example).

Okay so the drug companies need a "profit." But the difference between what it can be produced for, and what they actually charge here spells unfathomable greed to me. They charge the absolute maximum they can get away with--to people who are dying and for whom there is no alternative.

I think the medical establishment today has been taken over by the most heartless money-grubbing corporations. It is true that many people who work in health care, doctors and others, do care personally about the health of their patients.

But as a physician you know better than I the real situation in medicine today. It is getting worse, not better. See the current issue of the New Yorker Magazine, which exposes as a complete fraud of the 30 year so-called "war on cancer." That was just a ruse to collect money. More people die from cancer than ever, and there is NO cure in sight. Most all of the so-called new "breakthrough" drugs they tout on CBS Nightly News, just kill everybody. So they make another one, and get Dan Rather to get everyone's hopes up. The war on cancer is a total, utter failure. One in three women die from cancer; one in two men. And it is rising.

And consider heart disease, an even bigger killer. After all these years and untold biullions spent on "research," the most effective treatment they have come up with is to take an ASPIRIN???

Another good example is the treatment of gastric ulcers. That was scientifically PROVEN to be caused by a basteria. But the CURE was fought tooth and nail by the DRUG companies. Even today, when it is known that the ulcer drugs are ineffective and even the WRONG treatment, the drug companies prevail upon physicians to keep prescribing it. That would be a CRIME in any other business enterprise.

There are thousands of examples like this. So, I have no sympathy for drug companies. They have done a great job of brainwashing the public to accept thier rationale, but someday the drug companies will be proven to have been the ring leaders in a truly dark age for chronic and degenerative disease treatment. When profit is the sole and controlling motive, the real aim and purpsoe of medicine and healing is lost. In my view, that is our situation today.

~ Rant mode off ~

BobT.
A Indiana Boy

DrDan · May 31, 2001

Yes it sure does make you woder why drugs are so high in the US and lower in almost all other countries.

LOL I'm not a "real Doctor", physician <<thank god>> I'm a dog and cat "Doc". My patients rarely sue and I don't have to fill out reams of insurance papers and documentation for my every move. My malpractice insurance premium is $300 a year. Hey CowboyDoc, how much is yours if ya don't mind telling us.

Dr Dan

toddler · May 31, 2001

Rich,

I'd have to disagree, politely. For a brief while, I filled in for someone as a regional medical director for the north-east, for our little HMO. Got to see where the money went.

Medical costs aren't going up because of lawyers. To apply an analogy, that's kind of like saying adolescent death rates are going up because of assault weapons. It cost us over 25K to respond to a filed lawsuit, and almost all of them get dismissed. That's really our representation cost. But even though prisoners file more lawsuits than any other medical population, following the numbers, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. What is driving up the cost of healthcare is a sense of entitlement to the absolute best care available. I'm not saying that is wrong, but if your back hurts, you don't want to accept that negative CAT scan, you want a MRI with gadolinium. Checked the cost lately? Do doctors order the MRI because they think they'll get sued if they don't. Not really, the patient can go elsewhere, somebody else will get the test. Thing is, MRI has become our standard of care. As the standards go up, so do the costs.

Remember, malpractice costs often come out of the doctors pocket, and doctors are not the people setting up reimbursement figures. That would be the government and the MBA's who need to make a buck go as far as possible.

Costs are going up because people want accutane for their acne, lamisil for their toenail fungus, an MRI for their back pain, and cancer surgery when they're 85 and have smoked all their life (not making a judgement, just an observation). They're also going up because medicine is a business. Sorry, that's just the way it is. The insurance companies, drug companies, physicians, hospital administrators, and all the rest, want to make money.
That doesn't make an evil system, but it does make a costly one!
Todd

toddler · May 31, 2001

Hey Bob,

You are right, greed makes the prices go up. But altruism doesn't advance medicine. Sorry, this is America and everyone want's go get rich.

Also, "ulcer drugs" do work. Bacteria don't cause ulcers. H. Pylori, that bacteria you are referring to, is only part of the problem, and only in a subset of ulcer patients. We test for it and treat it when indicated.

Drug costs country to country. Tough question. The cost of getting a drug onto the US market is astronomically more than in other countries, simply because of the testing required and the regulations. Do you think the drug companies should pass that cost on to the poor countries who don't have an FDA? Not saying the FDA is the problem, just a factor. Also, most of the drug companies are publically owned, and therefore, market driven. Welcome to the USA, home of the market economy. Unfortunately, you can't give freedom to everyone except the drug companies or healthcare industries. All you can do is rant at them since they've got you over a barrel, and invest in them. Go figure.
Todd

BobT · May 31, 2001

Doc,

"My patients rarely sue" ... But they BITE!

BobT.
A Indiana Boy

DrDan · May 31, 2001

Love it Bob! I once asked my girlfriend if she thought I ate like a dog <gulp my food>. She said you are a dog! LOL After 17 years of being with them everyday, I guess a little of it does wear off. For the most part I have learned to read their body language and escape 99.99% of all bites, but I'm glad they give it a try. Keeps it interesting.

Now cats are a different story. It's a little harder knowing when they are gonna go off!

Dr Dan

BobT · May 31, 2001

Doc,

I personally like cats a lot, and have had as many as 24 at a time on my farm. But man, when they go, "go off" is right!

I remember once we were trying to catch some kittens, about 5-6 weeks old. They had been born out and about on the farm, and had gotten milk from their mothers and whatever they scrounged. There must have been at least a fifteen of them, and they were starting to stay further away from the house and barn. If we didn't gather some of them up and instead let them breed wild, we'd of had a hundred in short order.

So, we put some plates of milk out in the back yard, and the "cute" kittens came on up and started lapping. I got around behind one, wearing a FALCONERS GLOVE. I'd grab one and man, it "went off" alright. My buddy had a burlap sack nearby and it wall I could do to get one jammed down into that sack. We'd manage to set the whole thing up and get a few more, but then they wised up. I kind of made up a rule, that if you don't catch a wild kitten by the time it is 4 or 5 weeks old, you'll never catch it. The line between that cute little kitten and a lion evaporates in a flash. At least with a dog, you more or less know what you're going to be dealing with --- some fangs and two paws. But a cat, it is more like a grenade going off in your lap. Careful Doc!

BobT.
A Indiana Boy

DrDan · May 31, 2001

LOL Heck no Bob! I ain't letting no cat go off in my lap! That's what I got techs for. They are not allowed to let the "doc" get had. They change job titles from tech to "bait" at that point in time!
Dr Run Like He**

cowboydoc · May 31, 2001

Actually it sure does Bob. The pharmaceutical company gets sued in many cases right along with the doctor. Perfect example like I had said before is the breast implant issue. Drug companies have a huge product liablility!