Nonprofessional using Excavator?

[catvet]

I'm hoping to build my own pond this summer and was wondering if it is feasible to get the hang of an excavator in a reasonable period of time? I know it's crazy but I have the time and desire to have a go at it.

The pond location is cleared so I wouldn't be taking down trees. We have a pond fairly close which had good quantities of clay. In fact the person who did that pond left a big pile of clay to use for the next pond if the soils weren't up to snuff.

The largest machine I've used thus far is my Kubota L39 which I have around 400 hours on. A local Terex rep. does rentals. I've been thinking about their TC125 which apparently weighs in at 28,000 lbs. Pond is looking to be approx. 75' x 150' and hoping to make it as much as 12 -15 ft deep in spots. Will be mostly dugout with needing to build dam on downhill side.

Obviously I could hire it out but wouldn't be as much fun. Or depending how it goes could be hiring it out would be much more fun.

Any suggestions, for or against, appreciated.

 

[john_bud]

Can't comment on the excavator learning curve - never ran one. But, much time will be spent hauling the spoils from the hole to some new location. You will be needing to rent a large dump truck too.

Have fun and post some pictures!

 

[ScottAR]

Ditto. Moving spoils are going take more time/effort than the digging.
Truck/loader/dozer is going to be needed to move spoils.

 

[hockeypuck]

Scott has it right. You have to do something with the dirt once you dig it up. Getting back to your original question I will ask you one. How old are you and did you play video games growing up? It sounds stupid, but the younger you are and the more experience you have playing video games will go a long way in reducing the learning curve. When you first start to run an excavator you are thinking about your hand movements and trying to remember which joystick does what. After you get the hang of it, you are looking at the bucket alone and you just have to think where you want the bucket and it goes there, if you catch my drift.

 

[catvet]

The spoils comments are a good point. Obviously my lack of experience with the procedure is showing. My thought was the dirt not used for the dam would be placed either in a pile or used to fill in low spots in the adjacent terrain. I was thinking any pile could be moved further with the L39 after the pond was built and the rental was returned. Might need to rethink the process.

Concerning my age, I'm 55. No didn't play video games as kid. I was hoping that my time on the backhoe of the the L39 would help with the learning curve. Don't know but was hoping the Terex controls and the Kubota controls worked in the same way.

 

[Ductape]

If you are proficient at running your backhoe, you can pick up an excavator ok. I've gotta vote for hiring a dozer for a pond that size though.

 

[hockeypuck]

Please do not mistake my post for being rude. Of course anyone can learn to use an excavator, especially if you have had machine time in a backhoe.

That is a lot of digging for a 30k lb machine.

 

[catvet]

didn't think you were rude. Valid point about experience.

Ductape: Agreed a dozer would be more efficient. My thought is I have absolutely no skill set for a dozer. Hiring it out would take away the fun.

 

[ray66v]

15 years ago, my Father and I dug 2 lakes, one about an acre the other about a half acre, using nothing more than a dragline and a bulldozer.

Both were purchased for about $10K before the project and both were sold 1 year later for $10k.

Neither of us had any experience with either machine, prior to the start of the job.

The lakes were dug to create dirt to build up the rest of the property. The dirt was pushed to where it was needed with the dozer.

The entire project took about 3-4 months of weekends.

 

[EddieWalker]

You'll pick up the controls of the excavator quickly enough. That's just a matter of repition and after a dozen hours, you'll have it down. Just don't get discouraged after the first couple of hours. It will come to you.

The real problem is the dirt that you dig up. The excavator is great at digging, but terrible at moving the dirt around. With it parked in one place, you can dig like crazy, but that dirt is going to make a bigger pile then the hole it came out of. Think of pyramids and how the bottom of the dirt pile will spread out. You will dig a hundred yards with it in no time, but that hundred hards will take your tractor 300 trips or more to dispose of it. Depending on how far that is, you could be looking at 60 hours of seat time for every hundred yards.

From your dimensions, you will be digging 1,250 yards for every three feet of depth. If you start in the middle, then your piles will be where you need to dig next. If you start at one side, your next pass will be putting the dirt where your third pass will be.

There are several options for moving the dirt, it really depends on your budget and how far you want to move it. Having a dump truck would be the cheapest and fastest way to move the dirt when using the excavator, but you either need to switch from one to the other, or have somebody else drive the dump truck. Spreading out that much dirt is going to be a challenge.

Another option is to have a dozer just push it away and make a massive pile to deal with later. One pile will be larger then the hole you dig, due to the soil being loose and the way it will spread out. You can make several piles, but however you do it, you will have a massive amount of dirt to deal with.

If you go the dozer route, you really need another person to run the dozer. It will be a challenge for the dozer to keep up with the excavator.

Of course, if you are going to pile the spoils with a dozer, you can eliminate the excavator, and just dig it with the dozer and push the dirt out and into piles around the pond to deal with later. If you dig with the dozer, expect to take three times as long. Dozers don't dig very fast, excavators do.

Eddie

 

[ScottAR]

A tractor/pan or motorscraper with a dozer for shaping would be ideal barring large rocks in the soil. Boy, I can sure spend someone's money.

 

[catvet]

Appreciate all the posts. Eddie, I have to say I wonder how you are going to accomplish all those goals for 2008 when you write such extensive replies.

Again not having used an excavator I'm just not aware of their capabilities. Guess I was figuring that blade they have on them would have some moderate dozer capabilities to push the spoils out of the way.

 

[EddieWalker]

Jerry,

I've made a good start on some of my goals, but don't expect to finish all of them, or even start all of them. Putting it out there just helps motivate me to stay on focus and get them done. Otherwise, I might get distracted and start something else that might take several years to finish.

How much was your budget for renting the excavator? It might be worth your time to buy a full sized loader backhoe. That's what I used to dig my 3/4 acre pond. I would dig so much with the hoe, then haul it off with the one yard front bucket. It took me several months of doing it this way, five days a week. I was worried about the rains coming, so I started piling up the dirt right next the the pond. Getting rid of that pile after I was done digging is what really took a long time.

After you finish digging with the backhoe, you can sell it for close to what you paid for it if you keep it in good condition. Buy 4wheel drive if you can. I have 2wd and wish I had spent the extra for 4wheel drive. Buy the newest one you can with the fewest hours. It's more money,but you will have fewer breakdowns and you'll be able to sell it for close to what you paid for it anyway.

The real expense is comparing how many hours you run it to what the price difference is when selling it compared to buying it. Fuel is a push either way. Rental fees will probably be allot more then what you depreciate the sale price when you are done.

Eddie

 

[catvet]

Eddie,

My original thought was that I could do it in a week. More I read less sure I am. But hope could at least do it in a month. Renting the Terex TC125 is $1700/week and $5100/month. Hauling is $90/hour. Would hope they could do it in 2 hours each way as it takes me 20-30 minutes to drive it. As you say the fuel is a wash. Not at all sure could find a full sized backhoe for that range that would be in reasonable shape.

 

[tlbuser]

On a different note, look for another rental co. A cat 322 long reach would enable you to leave your spoils farther away and still get done in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Eagleview]

If you downsized the width you could build a Boomerang shaped lake dumping the spoils on the far side from your viewing area . Which would create a mound to plant trees that would attract the birds . It would solve the spoils problem and once established would provide a pretty backdrop to the lake . Weather the Boomerang swept away from you or toward you would be your preference .

 

[Unregistered2013]

I would definitely use a dozer and then an excavator --

here's my "first time" on either of those, digging my pond -- worked out really well --


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/94752-i-dug-me-pond.html?highlight=pond

 

[catvet]

Thanks again for the replies. Eric, great set of photos thanks for the link. Dug a couple of test holes last night with my tractor backhoe. Certainly didn't see any water bubbling up though two of the three holes started accumulating water pretty quick. Not sure if just surface runoff or what.

 

[Kays Supply]

You might want to do a post on dam building also. In my area there have been several ponds lost do to poor dam building. It isn't as simple as piling up the dirt.

 

[mike69440]

I have a L39 and a PC75UU2 18.000 lb excavator. One thing I found out real quik, is that even with a front blade, excavators cant move spoils. They dig fill and push , but can't carry.