noobie asking for advice

[newbury]

Thanks BarryinMN, Pfm1011, Digdeep, Terra, Cat Driver, and 8934.

All - tracksteer looks best, skidsteer might do.
BarryinMN - As I mentioned I'm looking at used, and fire-sale prices. I'm looking for the Swiss-Army knife approach and a skid steer seems to represent it.

Pfm1011 - heat/ac may add cost and upkeep. Most of the used stuff I looked at had open cabs. As I said - this will be operate when the weather is good. I'm from Vermont and don't ever see the need for heat in Ms. and can put up with 105 deg and 100% humidity. Take's look good.

Digdeep - I'm forgetting about ASV no dealers nearby

Cat Driver - Your just showing off and tighten your track. The attachment philosophy is one thing swaying me.

8934 - Tractors are "available" from relatives, but I have virtually 0 acres of land without trees .

My process to date -
Mapped out the "local" dealers - CAT, JD, NH, Takeuchi, and JCB are in Tupelo. Komatsu not too far.

I want something -
Small to start - not over 7,000 pounds
Diesel
Still have not decided 100% tracked.

What's the community opinion on the effect of the economy over the next year/6 months on prices of used skid steers?

 

[rtdiggr]

You definately want a cab and heat/ac in a track loader,

As per the bouncing etc. The Takeuchi have a much heavier stable feel, Less bouncy

Keep away from CAT and ASV, Their undercarriage is extremely weak and expensive to run. Its built for comfort however you can expect $10 per hour in under carriage repairs and track replacement. How bad is the undercarriage? , Cat is trying to design their own and have sold their shares in ASV , ( run away)

Additionally the cat /asv controls seem to have alot of problems with hesitation after 5 or 600 hours.

ASV are big on here since they were really the first with high flow ( 40 gpm for mulching) But now most have the 40gpm option . It is something that you will only need if you are buying fecon or similar mulching head ( 20K plus just for the head)

Bobcats have too much electronics and are pricey.

Takeuchi invented the track loader and has been building them for 25 years, Bobcat 8 years

Loegering kits etc. Waste of time and money as they are essentially a bandaid and you can buy a very good track loader with a few hundred hours very cheap. A track loader that is meant to be a track loader. The loegering kits are no different then wheel kits for ski-doos.


Here is a quote from another thread on here

"Let me add my two cents. I have owned several ASV's and now own my first Tak 150 (Modified by super tracks, but still the same base machine)

The Tak will push the ASV around... The traction force placed on the ground for the ASV is around 6000lbs, vs the Tak at 13,200 lbs. That's only a few hundred pounds shy of a CAT D3 dozer.

The Tak rides like a dozer, but I can deal with that. I would NOT recomend an ASV over a Tak.

If you are looking at a CAT, it is essentially the same ( I know some will disagree with me, but oh well..) as the ASV. Maybe a little more dependable. The joke is that my ASVs will work for 40 hours, then have to go to the shop. I now have over 400 hours on my Tak, and it has only been in the shop once"


Nice bonus on the Takeuchi is also the roll up door so you can operate with the front door open. With the windows down and the door up it is a nice open cab, close it up on cold /hot dusty days.

All others you have to operate closed all the time which can get tight fast. ( takeuchi cabs are also the biggest out there)

PMF1011 Where do you get parts and service for your Tak in the Niagara area?
I know your machine is good. But what is your personal experience with ASV?

Lets face it there are alot of ASVs and Cats[with tracks] out there, they must be doing something right.

Shane

 

[EddieWalker]

I only have a little experience with skid steers and none with the tracked ones. I thought they were very rough to operate on and it didn't take very long to become painful. While the tracks are a good option for soft, swampy land, the too have their limts. Another limiting factor is the size of the buckets. They don't hold very much material.

As for attachments, they are king. If you want something, you can get it. The quick attach system to take them off an put on something different is just amazing. I've recentlly addapted one to fit my full sized loader/backhoe.

With as much land as you have, and your list of what you want to do, I would look at a full sized loader/backhoe with 4wd and a 4in1 bucket. If you can't take out a tree by just pushing it over with the front bucket, you can use the backhoe. There is no tree too big for the backhoe. It will take them out and pile them up. Then with the 4in1 bucket, it's simple to pick them up and carry them to the burn pile.

For your roads, you will either have to create drainage or build up a crown. Maybe both. The backhoe can dig your drianage ditches, while your front loader can spread it, or carry it to where you need it. You can load the dump truck that you borrow with it, and spread the dirt after you dump it.

For me, it's the most versatile, useful machine that you can own. While some machines will do the specific task better, nothing does as many things as well as the loader/backhoe.

If you really want to spend some money, you can get a removable front bucket and have all the advantages of the skid steer. You can get a grapple for better material handeling or forks for moving pallets. I even use my forks for moving logs!!!

A cab would be very nice. I don't have one, but dream of it all the time. Especially when the bugs are biting and it's 99 outside with 80 percent humidty. Add a little dust to that and you'll understand.

For post holes, you can get a hydraulic one like they use on skid steers, but mount it on your backhoe. Take off hte bucket and you have the ulitimate post hole digger!!!!!! It's a dream of mine and somethng I'd love to have. Right now, I deal with a 3pt post hole digger on my small CUT.

And of course, you can drive the loader backhoe on the streets from property to property. It's also light enought that you can tow it with your one ton truck and a trailer. I should add that in some places I've read that it is illegal to do this, but here in Texas, it's legal and done all the time. Of course, just driving it to where you need it is the easiest way to get it there if it's not too far. I've gone 30 miles one way with mine.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[AKfish]

Yep.... get a full-sized TLB. There's a slug of 'em on the market right now with low hours and great prices!

It won't work as fast as a track-steer or skid-steer on some dirt projects or as fast as an excavator on other dirt work -- but it will get ALL those jobs done that it would require using BOTH a track-steer and an excavator to get done.

But... most of 'em weigh in around 13-16,000lbs and a good one will still cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $20K.

My $0.02.

Best of luck with your decision.

AKfish

 

[newbury]

Well thanks Eddie and AKfish for the advice on getting something bigger. I'd really like to.
Since my lots are about 10 to 30 miles apart in Mississippi and about 1100 miles from my 75 acre lot in Vermont driving the equipment on the road is a killer. Going up a larger size means - bigger prime mover, bigger trailer, or hire and be at someones whim and price to get it moved.
Additionally I will probably be loaning it to relatives who will need to move it.
So - as she said "size matters".

Again:

What I want to do:
Bring the roads up to non mudhole standards, put in some decent gates and earth berms to limit access.
Fix some of the land up for better tree farming
Spruce up a few old house sites such that I can drop an ISO container in as a small deer camp.
Put in a few fish ponds and build up a couple of existing ponds, all small ponds.
And have a toy that can move the occasional medium size stump or VW Beetle.

The roads are there for the most part. I'll be bringing in some gravel and filling holes mostly.
I don't have hardly ANY trees over 10"DBH to "move" most are about 1"DBH.

I had originally focused on a dozer but then came across someone's article who STRONGLY advised never get anything under 50Hp. When I looked up weights of TLB's of that size they exceeded my (self imposed) wight limit of about 3 ton.

Plus, as I mentioned relatives have tractors, I just have not determined what implements they have. But when I brought up- what I wanted to do "bobcat" kept coming up in their recommendations.

I've been following auction prices at Ironbucket and sale prices at various websites such as machinery trader and think I should be able to get a moderately used skidsteer that I can tow in the enclosed trailer (I had planned on buying ANYWAYS) with the E350 or my brother-in-law's CUCV's for about $15 to $20K and add in a few grand to fix it. Virtually all the stuff I PLAN on doing is the push and lift style stuff. Ponds were going to be built by damming some small swales.

And again I'm not planning on wearing myself out doing something, I'd probably get up in the a.m., get to the site by dawn, putter for a couple of hours, call it a day and clean up. I'm growing trees and will be retired, just trying to keep active versus playing golf or surfing the net. If I get a bigger job than I can handle then I'll hire help.

Now if Eddie thinks a small TLB (within price, weight, $$) might do, I obviously have to add searches for that to my potential tool. Any good brand names, models?

/edit 4 ??
Can anyone point out a good link that succinctly explains the differences and tradeoffs between the various wheeled contraptions of engines with implements?
Skid steer I can understand, but whats the diff between a tractor/loader and a tractor with a loader attachment?
Can't I put a backhoe on a "Multi Terrain Loader"?

 

[idahohay]

You might consider buying a used 580 Case backhoe. 4wd would be nice but will be a little higher. This is probably the most common backhoe in the US and prices have been reasonable. Not the machine for working in the woods but you could add a used skid steer or rubber tracked machine. I think your needs are too diverse for only one machine and you really need at least three.

 

[AKfish]

Since my lots are about 10 to 30 miles apart in Mississippi and about 1100 miles from my 75 acre lot in Vermont driving the equipment on the road is a killer. Going up a larger size means - bigger prime mover, bigger trailer, or hire and be at someones whim and price to get it moved.
Additionally I will probably be loaning it to relatives who will need to move it.

The roads are there for the most part. I'll be bringing in some gravel and filling holes mostly.
I don't have hardly ANY trees over 10"DBH to "move" most are about 1"DBH.

tow in the enclosed trailer (I had planned on buying ANYWAYS) with the E350 or my brother-in-law's CUCV's for about $15 to $20K and add in a few grand to fix it. Virtually all the stuff I PLAN on doing is the push and lift style stuff. Ponds were going to be built by damming some small swales.

Now if Eddie thinks a small TLB (within price, weight, $$) might do, I obviously have to add searches for that to my potential tool. Any good brand names, models?

Skid steer I can understand, but whats the diff between a tractor/loader and a tractor with a loader attachment?
Can't I put a backhoe on a "Multi Terrain Loader"?

Newbury; there are several smaller "construction" grade TLB's that are very capable for their size. But.. the price is right up there with the full-size TLB machines. Kubota offers 3 smaller TLB's - Deere has one and Yanmar has one. I don't think that JCB or any of the other manufacturers have machines in that size range; 7K-9K.

But.. I don't believe that ANY of the small TLB's will fit inside ANY of the 3/4 - 1 ton truck towable enclosed trailers - 8' ceiling. (Maybe.. the Kubota B21-B24) The height will get ya! On this point -- (I know you want the enclosed trailer to move from VT) -- that enclosed trailer will be a major frustration for you with moving equipment with any frequency - IMO. Loading, unloading various implements and attachments (that's one of the major advantages of SS is all the "tools") and attempting to secure things from shifting and destroying the walls will cause you yank out large amounts of hair!!

After re-reading your work requirements (trying to keep in mind; 300 acres) much of what you detailed reads like - mid sized Ag tractor. Front loader with grapple and/or 4n1 bucket, post hole digger (maybe a 3pt tree spade, too), rear blade or box blade.

I didn't see alot of hoe work mentioned - trenching, excavating, culvert placement, etc. Having a backhoe is a great advantage and you'll "find" ways to use it - but it's a spendy option and can change the buying equation real fast. Renting or hiring an excavator will free up money to buy a bigger tractor or other attachments.

Differences in a "tractor/loader and a tractor with a loader attachment" is primarily the way the machine is designed and in some cases the materials used in it's construction. For example, construction tractor/loaders do not have removable loaders. They are integral to the frame/construction of the machine. And they typically are built of heavy cast iron components and high tensile, high carbon steel elements.
Tractors with a loader are typically "quick attach" and removable with fewer or no cast iron components.
There are other differences as well - dimension and capacity of the hydraulic cylinders, etc.

Maybe the best thing to do is take your time and demo a few different models and types of machines. Can't hurt... and you'll get to know some of the dealers as well as aquaint yourself with the various capabilities and differences of the platforms.

Best of luck.

AKfish

 

[mako]

hey noobie, we turned a 5000 acre mud hole south of Meridian Mississippi into a deer hunting dream with 44 miles of road and 100 food plots. A 100 acre tract to clean with a skid steer and roads to build would take forever plus the skidsteer would be wore out when you got done. Hire a dozer and a trackhoe for a week and save money. Let the dozer make fire lanes and save money, burn your property. It is easier to maintain fire lanes and roads after real equipment has prepared them. We have 2 trackhoes with cutters, rubber tired machines with cutters and tracked machines,,,,and they can not keep the cost down on a large track like fire can.

 

[tlbuser]

Now if Eddie thinks a small TLB (within price, weight, $$) might do, I obviously have to add searches for that to my potential tool. Any good brand names, models?

/edit 4 ??
Can anyone point out a good link that succinctly explains the differences and tradeoffs between the various wheeled contraptions of engines with implements?
Skid steer I can understand, but whats the diff between a tractor/loader and a tractor with a loader attachment?
Can't I put a backhoe on a "Multi Terrain Loader"?

Kubota L39 or 48 comes to mind first. Yanmar cbl-40, pricier but in similar ballpark.all towable by 3/4 to 1 ton with good trailer. IMO, either one equipped with a ss q/a would be better suited for your tasks than a track loader. Unless your planning on a mulcher....these will do the job. Front mount mower, blade, grapple, bucket, phd, etc., etc.

tractor loaders are normally made with non removeable loaders. They are typically beefed up in key areas for construction type uses. tractors with a loader are normally intended for agricultural uses such as lifting and moving loose materials (sillage, hay, stall muck, etc.)

I personally do not like ss or mtl mounted backhoes. They are difficult to maneuver.

 

[newbury]

Thanks AKfish

Newbury; there are several smaller "construction" grade TLB's that are very capable <snip>
But.. I don't believe that ANY of the small TLB's will fit inside ANY of the 3/4 - 1 ton truck towable enclosed trailers - 8' ceiling. (Maybe.. the Kubota B21-B24) The height will get ya! On this point -- (I know you want the enclosed trailer to move from VT) -- that enclosed trailer will be a major frustration for you with moving equipment with any frequency - IMO. Loading, unloading various implements and attachments (that's one of the major advantages of SS is all the "tools") and attempting to secure things from shifting and destroying the walls will cause you yank out large amounts of hair!!
<snip>

AKfish

I had envisioned I'd be driving the SS onto the trailer and dropping it at a site, where I plan on having an ISO shipping container as a workshed. Then go back and get "implements" if needed. Looking at the Kubota 21 TLB the main problem may be travel height for the bucket, but I can't find specs. Do they have to travel folded UP?

mako:

ey noobie, we turned a 5000 acre mud hole south of Meridian Mississippi into a deer hunting dream with 44 miles of road and 100 food plots. A 100 acre tract to clean with a skid steer and roads to build would take forever plus the skidsteer would be wore out when you got done. Hire a dozer and a trackhoe for a week and save money. Let the dozer make fire lanes and save money, burn your property. It is easier to maintain fire lanes and roads after real equipment has prepared them. We have 2 trackhoes with cutters, rubber tired machines with cutters and tracked machines,,,,and they can not keep the cost down on a large track like fire can.

I'm not planning on cleaning acreage, more like pushing down and driving over a bunch of briars and saplings under 1"DBH and MAYBE dragging out a few trees I'll take down with my Stihl. Just to make walkable paths. Again the roads ARE there for the most part, they just need touching up, and I need to prepare something for ISO containers.
How much would a hired dozer and trackhoe cost for a week? Wouldn't it be 5 to 10 grand? And then when SWMBO wants another ISO put down, pile of dirt moved, or pond put in I'd have to get someone again. No, I want the tool and convenience of being able to do it myself, or at least have one of my kin do it with my equipment.
An thanks, I know about AND STRONG ADVOCATE controlled burns. Major parts of California and Iraq come to mind.

tlbuser:

Kubota L39 or 48 comes to mind first. Yanmar cbl-40, pricier but in similar ballpark.all towable by 3/4 to 1 ton with good trailer. IMO, either one equipped with a ss q/a would be better suited for your tasks than a track loader. Unless your planning on a mulcher....these will do the job. Front mount mower, blade, grapple, bucket, phd, etc., etc.

That L39 looks sweet Do you think I could pick up and hook the bucket on with 1 hand? Kubota Tractor Corporation - TLB Series - L39 Loader/Landscaper Tractors