Northern Tool Sandblasters???

Bob_Skurka · Jun 9, 2005

I'm considering buying a relatively inexpensive sand blaster. Does anyone have any experience with the pressurized units available at Northern Tool? I'm not looking for a professional grade unit, this would be for home use to help with restoration projects.

This is what I am thinking of: 20 gallon sand blaster

Junkman · Jun 9, 2005

Save your money. Everyone that I know that has purchased a low end sand blaster for doing hobby work on cars has been sadly disappointed in the results. If you want good results you are going to need a better unit and then a big compressor to power it. This unit would be fine for about a 3" x 3" area, but not much more from what I have seen.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 9, 2005

How much bigger compressor?

I'm using a 33gallon 6hp unit and figure I'll be getting another one of those for my new garage/workshop in a couple weeks (the garage should be done by then).

Spiffy · Jun 9, 2005

If you use both compressors, you might be ok! Actually 5HP running [roughly 220V X 20Amps continuous draw, not "peak" BS], is a good estimate for "small" blasters.

Figure 20 CFM for blasting, unless it is litterally spot blasting or very small and very occasional components [but then a suction or gravity {same gun, different hose} would work despite slightly slower results]. I will mention there is a guy selling plans on Ebay for a hybrid blaster; near identical to a concept of mine I almost built before getting a good deal on a TP [now Brut mfg] pressure unit. I won't share because he's making a couple bucks to "feed his project habits", but besides a couple quirks, I think the results are as good as presure, possibly more efficient and easier on hoses [I keep planning to try a back to back but never get around to it] not to mention pretty cheap for anyone even slightly constructive.

You'll also want 1/2" air line with a separator at the tank and a coalescing at the blaster [again barring spot blasting]. The more metal line coming from the tank [and draining backwards, the better too].

As far as the blaster, again if it is ocassional use you may be happy with the unit you posted, but for that style Ebay sells some real cheapos, else Northern [and many others] do have some nice pressure units. I was tempted to try the Texas Blasters on Ebay.

Let us know what you decide, Bob!

Spiffy · Jun 9, 2005

I'd say you about nailed it Junkman. The sad irony is that cheap blasters take just as much air as more expensive ones, despite the "creative" advertising....I also found [the hard way] that cheap ones come with "frustration" as added bonus, but if you have any moisture in your air the frustration is free anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Jun 9, 2005

Bob, I notice the specs on that sandblaster calls for 6 to 25 CFM "depending on which nozzle" is used. Is this the compressor you have? If so, I'd be inclined to think that Northern Tool sandblaster might work well enough with your compressor. Naturally, bigger may be better, but if you aren't doing big jobs . . . why spend more.

Spiffy · Jun 9, 2005

Thanks for the link Bird! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The air compressor marketing has gotten worse than I thought! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I should have said 4 compressors!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Bird is right, don't buy more than you need. But if you are looking at hoods & fenders or anything more than the small parts [BTW, a cabinet is nice then] and expecting even close to 1sqft/min [I'd still cut the rating in half or 1/4 if you have solid paint {also, nothing worse than stripping a brush job} or solid rust] you will need over 20cfm @ 100psi.

I suspect you are doing the hoods, fenders, and frames; so if you're set at the $200: I'd say go for a real cheap blaster and put the extra $150 toward a bigger compressor; if the blaster frustrates you, then you're only out $50 when you buy a different one later. Not the very top of the line, but I like the way Eaton rates their units so I bought one of their 2 stage pumps and a 20Amp motor for about $500 [but I already had a tank and starter].

Also [for even remotely continuous blasting] don't let anyone tell you that the tank will make up for low CFM. Bigger is still better, though in that it helps precooling for water knockout.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 9, 2005

OK guys, I think I got it! Bird, the compressor I already have is the vertical version of the one you posted. I've never sandblasted so I don't know what to expect, but I guess at the very least I'll be getting a larger compressor for the new shop/garage!

Bird · Jun 9, 2005

Bob, I'm not sure what kind of "restoration" projects you're talking about. I had in mind small items, but if you're talking about cars, then I certainly agree with Junkman. I used to have one of the Craftsman sandblasters (not a pressure feed) that held 100# of sand. And I sandblasted two 5' x 10' trailers with it. Of course I didn't care about getting everything perfectly blasted off to clean metal all the way; just wanted to get rid of rust, loose paint, etc. before painting them. When I did the first trailer, I had a 30 gallon, 4hp Craftsman oilless compressor. And I let it run long enough that it broke a reed valve. That's when I learned how easy it is to rebuild oilless compressors and how often they need rebuilding. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif So before I did the second trailer, I bought a 60 gallon, 6hp, twin cylinder oil lubricated compressor. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

PineRidge · Jun 9, 2005

Bob my father used to use a machine similar to this for restoring Model As. He did have a large 2 cylinder, 220 volt, horizontal tank air compressor to power it. And they do make one heck of a mess.

A respirator is a necessity when sandblasting or silicosis is a possibility, and nasty stuff.

Spiffy · Jun 9, 2005

Great points Mike! You can get silica-free "Black Blast" but you definitely need to screen that (not a bad idea anyway)and I like silica's cutting better, so the respirator is a must. I only have the cheap gloves and cheap hood, but it is indespensable! Also I line the lens with tranparancy for cheap replacement; they cloud up fast.

Yep, that's the Texas I was pondering myself! Looks better built than Northern unit. I'd think if they've been around as long the website says, parts shouldn't be an issue; of course you can pick-up a 38special valve for around $100 or a straight handle for less. Else, $50 more buys a simalar Brut; or $100 more gets one with "pull up" closure [no threads to contaminate]; much like mine, but my cheap butt searched till I found a "used once" unit with 38special, hood, gloves and spare parts for $200. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 Edit If you like Northern, I think they have some ALC pressure units, that should be decent quality.

slowrev · Jun 10, 2005

I have the 40LB pressure type blaster from HF. Works fair on a 3 hp compressor for about 7-10 min, then you heave to wait for the compressor to catch up. By 7-10 min I need to unfog the hood lens anyway /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif On my FIL's 5 HP unit it works pretty good, not like a big commercial unit, but not bad at all for the money. It needs about about 12 cfm @90 to work good. I use either regular sand or the :black beauty" slag stuff.
Ben

Bob_Skurka · Jun 10, 2005

All . . . thanks for the replies, but it seems to me that there is a point at which this gets to be too expensive for me to consider. I don't use a compressor for very much now, I have always just sent my sandblasting "out" to be done in the past, so we have laws of dimishing returns coming into play since my needs are modest. I think I may try a larger compressor, I found an Ingersoll Rand unit that puts out MARGINALLY more air at DOUBLE the price of my current Craftsman unit but is a 2 stage unit so it should keep up a bit better IF I understand it correctly? But it is lower HP and has a smaller tank so it would probably run more frequently. Ingersoll Rand compressor And I may go for something like the Texas blaster that is pointed out earlier on the thread for sale on Ebay. Beyond that, I'd be better off just sending stuff out to be done.

I need to blast some parts of the Sno-Trac for that restoration. But it should not be full body panels, more like isolated parts. I'm looking at buying an old mechanical tobacco transplater and restoring that for use in planting veggies. Beyond that, I have no other needs until I buy another tractor for restoration, but the Sno-Trac will keep me busy for a while.

So now that my needs are more clearly laid out, do you think I am being realistic or should I skip the sandblaster idea?

Spiffy · Jun 10, 2005

I got my pressure blasting toys when the wife was quoted $1000 just to have her horse trailer "dusted off." Ironically for the past 6 months that same 20cfm compressor has been used to fill a few tires and an occasional air tool [but I have toys waiting for blasting, so it'll be used plenty again]. So if you have an econimical source for blasting, that is perfect [not to mention keeping the sand out of every oriface on your body].

On the other hand, I don't think your plans are unrealistic. Just looking at the pictures, I'd go for the Texas over the one you first listed, but skim the web for a few more brands [TP, Brut, ALC, Clemco, about a half dozen more] and you may find something as good or better. Also, Ebay often has good ones that somebody used for one project or used once and didn't like the mess. Remember if the tank is decent, pressure blasters are dead simple. A couple ball valves. Some hose [though $2.50 a foot or something outrageous], and a shutoff valve; everything from $10 cheapos to $70 to $125 for something not disposable.

As far as the IR, you're not really getting any more or less compressor output, but for much more of your money [you're paying for the Name and probably a little more quality]. I don't think it is a 2 stage [it is 2 cylinder], but if so that means slightly better efficiency, much better at higher pressures. Always preferring longevity and despising dishonesty in advertising, I'd have to do the IR if they were the only two choices, but I just don't think you need the gains it offers.

The best I can say is go with a big tank [you already have the smaller compressor] and cheap pump [220V is more effecient]. Then you can at least get a feel for blasting [a couple minutes at a time], and if you decided you want more air latter, parallel in an Eaton pump and motor [don't forget a 30amp relay or a starter].

Spiffy · Jun 10, 2005

Realized that for over $500 on the IR you could have an Eaton or something like it that would almost keep up with your blasting needs; for intermittant use I'd think you'd be happy with 14CFM @90psi [for tractor hoods or large things, you'll still wish for about 50-100% larger output].
Eaton

Good Luck

Junkman · Jun 10, 2005

When you get into things like tractor hood and other large items, you better have a good working knowledge of what you are blasting with, because it doesn't take very long for a sand blaster to render a larger piece useless because the blaster has warped and distorted it. I have seen many a good car ruined by an inexperienced sand blast operator that warped every panel to the point where the car looked like a giant wave after being painted.

Bird · Jun 10, 2005

Ouch, Bob. I like Ingersoll-Rand products, and if you just have to have a portable compressor, and need it to run on 120 volt instead of 240, I guess that one is OK, but overpriced in my opinion. This Puma looks like what I had; much more capacity for a lower price.

Spiffy · Jun 10, 2005

The best I can say is go with a big tank [you already have the smaller compressor] and cheap pump [220V is more effecient]. Note: I'm saying this for the situation afore mentioned....I still can't tolerate a salesman that hypes "peak HP" or tank size when I ask about continuous usable CFM @ XXpressure. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 This Puma looks like what I had; much more capacity for a lower price 

Something like that is exactly what I had in mind, Bird! With only 2 exceptions I can think of [none listed here] everyone is outsourcing their pumps anyway (but there's still a huge range of quality). The pump and motor on that type of unit isn't what you'd want for much edit: like daily continuous use or too much abuse, but I think it will get your blasting ambitions up & running just fine Bob.

I hated both my small compressor and my gravity blaster so bad that I did one tractor [and rented an extra 10cfm to supplement the 5cfm] then rarely used it in the last 10 years; oohh do I like the pressure unit and having the power behind it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Jun 10, 2005

( The pump and motor on that type of unit isn't what you'd want for much edit: like daily continuous use or too much abuse )

Chad, I was a little bit skeptical myself when I bought it, but I bought it from a company that I trusted because of a prior experience with them, and they told me they had some of those Pumas in places where they ran 18 hours a day (I'd never heard of a Puma compressor at the time). Now that company also makes some of their own compressors and the guy told me that the Puma "6 hp" motor was what they called an "imitation 6 hp". Sitting beside it was one of their own 80 gallon 2-stage 175 psi compressors with what he said was a "true 5 hp" motor that was at least twice the size of the motor on the Puma, and I could have bought one of those for about twice as much money.

Now my Puma didn't run really long hours at a time, but I was repairing/rebuilding mechanics' air tools at the time, so it was a rare day indeed when it wasn't used since I used the blow gun to dry parts that I took out of the parts washer, powered my Cyclone blaster cabinet with glass beads, powered my own air tools, including the sand blaster, occasionally the paint gun, and I even used a siphon type gun to spray insecticide at times and herbicide on the driveway, as well as using a long nozzle blow gun to "sweep" the shop floor frequently. I had three 50' hoses, one 15' hose, and two 10' hoses, so I could get all the way around the house, or anywhere in the house when I wanted to. I never worried about running it too long and never had a single problem with it.

Spiffy · Jun 10, 2005

the guy told me that the Puma "6 hp" motor was what they called an "imitation 6 hp". 

Honest sales, now that's the type of people I'd buy something from! 18hours daily?! Wow....that's more in a year than I'd do in 25; sounds like it treated you well too. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif