Not so sure this is normal?

[Code54]

My 3700 looked like that when I changed it and I was also told that is not unusual by the Kubota dealer (and I trust this one)
I never had a problem with it while I had it (think 350 hrs I sold it) - not a lot of hours but no problems at all

 

[DK35vince]

My hydraulic filter was actually like that, although not quite as much. Maybe 75%. I've had the top of my transmission case off for another reason, and the gears look pretty much like you'd expect for 300 hours, brand new. That's why the HST transmission has it's own filter, because it has a separate pump to protect.

I fail to see the mountain from the molehill, it's not an ideal situation but seems to cause no harm anyway.

Seeing a few undamaged gears at the top of the transmission doesn't mean a thing.
Like jewing3227 says. It only takes 1 bearng being damaged that you can't see that can cause you serious problem later on.
A small amount of fine filings is normal, this amount is far from normal.

 

[lilranch2001]

Jewing, I agree with you, possibly there would never be an issue, but there is always a possibility that there COULD be an issue, and a company like Bota should deal with an issue like this.
I mean how much more unit time would it take to clean that case properly?
How much customer respect is lost when a customer does their own service and finds that crap?

It is just all around bad business in my opinion

 

[kuboman]

Chilly807 ......first and formost brother i'm gonna take your comment in a good way. I by no shape, form, way, or fashion am trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I personally have been through bearing programs for SKF, FAG and NATIONAL so I feel I do have some concern here. Like mention recently, debris in material does move about before it hits the filter and I personally know that it dosen't take much to damage a bearing. If I wanted a deere, believe you me I would have one but I chose a Kubota because I know sevral people who own them and like them.......I personally like my L3200, just some concern here. Maybe posting the filter on here and asking a few questions or making a few comments wasn't the best idea as there is always someone who thinks people are "whining". I was just curious as to how many others had this much material in the filter. I believe I have found my answer. Thanks everyone for your help. Have a good one

Well unless a few people complain a company will never pull up it's socks and remedy a problem. That much iron knocking around the tranny is never a good idea. It probably won't be a problem but the potential is there. It just plain disappointing that Kubota is not more careful with it's cleaning.:thumbdown:

 

[CarterKraft]

no one asked me but I am gonna reply anyway...

I am a Kubota fan/owner and work for a dealer for some major AG brands as a field tech, been here for 10+ years. If I removed a filter from any compartment and found that much material, there would be some issues. A screen is not there to catch machining swarf, much like a filter is not installed to allow dirty oil to poured into a compartment.

Intersesting notes:
> 75% - 85% of compenent failures are due to fluid contamination not defects in components.
> A half teaspoon of dirt in 55 gallons of oil is enough to classify it as too contaminated for use.
> A 32 gpm pump in one year of 8 hour per day operation pumping oil @ ISO 19/16 pumps 157 lbs of "dirt" through it
while oil @ ISO 16/13 will only move 19 lbs of "dirt".

I will say that the micron level of the oil allowed in a very basic power shuttle transmission is far different of that piston pump load sensing system in a mining excavator or a hydrostat track type tractor.
Not to compare apples to oranges but if that product was a yellow insect it would have the oil changed and then kidney looped until the oil meat 18/15 ISO oil spec in the tractor.

My concern is if they are unable to clean the trans housing then what about the parts of the housings you don't see. We assume that debris is just laying in the bottom of the case, what if the debris was in cooling/lube passages in the case and was then pumped in to the bearings at the end of those passages not screened or filtered as suggested. If Kubota knew where the shavings are left or originating from why can't that make sure that area is cleaned?

 

[Smiles007]

Hello fellas, Just changed the filter/fluids on my L3200 and after pulling the tranny filter off I was shocked by the amount of shavings I found in the filter. I will post a few pictures and hopefully I can get an idea if this is normal or not. The tractor is a L3200 HST 4x4 model. It has 45 hours as we speek. I have been nothing but gentle with it in my opion compared to how I have seen several ran. I have also emailed the pictures to the dealer to get their take aswell. I understand there is gonna be some wear as it is the break in period per say but this much...

Alarming to me. Document well.

 

[Grateful11]

Yup, those are chips from the machining. I'd run it a bit, then change the filter.

Absolutely on the machining part but not sure I'd let go with just a filter change. I'd at least get it flushed if not opened up to see what's going on. I worked as a Machinist for nearly 30 years and they're definitely chips from machining and not wear particles. There's really no excuse for leaving that many shavings in the tranny. Our L3940 only had very fine metallic like dust almost like grinding swarf.

 

[MHarryE]

My latest machine at the yellow insect company - I went with 1,000 hours to the first hydraulic oil change without regular oil sampling, 2,000 hours with sampling. I was criticized for being too conservative - why not 4,000 hours like the hydraulic excavators? So when I see 50 hour oil change interval on my L5740, I think, "What, do these guys own a large oil company and want to make more money"? Seeing these pictures I now understand their 50 hour change interval. I haven't seen anything like this since I visited a factory in Russia not too long after the fall of the Soviet Union where they assembled their machines, including installing the hydraulic hoses, on a dirt floored building. I thought Kubota would be like our plants in Japan where they assemble in a polished factory with assemblers wearing white gloves and each machine needing to be tested to meet ISO 18/15 before shipping. This is unacceptable workmanship on any standard.

 

[jewing3227]

So I got the call from Trevor at Kabota. He said that he has quite a few people higher up envolved with this one. What he wants to do first is have me run the tractor another 10-15 hours and cheange the filter/oil again. Kubota is covering it on their dollar. If there happens to be any more "raw" chips like that, he said we are definetly proceeding forward. He Asked for me to be patient, but this has to be handled in steps. I understand to a certain degree. I brought up about some fo the small chips being washed into open bearings and such and he really didn't have a comment for that except to say, lets see in 10-15 hours what the filter/oil looks like. We had a lengthy discussion and I brought up how I didn't feel it was right with what has happened to have to break the whole rear of the tractor down if that was going to be the next step. He simply said they would make things right and that the pictures as well as this situation in full has been documented.

The problem, to Kubota, and like several of you guys stated is from the machine process and it not getting cleaned out like it should. He never really tried making any excuses and I'm glad.

I ran the tractor today for a couple hours and it seems to be ok for the time being. I guess we will just wait and see here in 10-15 hours to come on weather or not more shavings will appear.

On a side not, I kinda thought it was funny but as he was first talking he made the coment that it IS normal for the L3200/3800 to "make some metal". I mean come on......make some metal? Thats not very soothing to hear.

 

[rScotty]

So I got the call from Trevor at Kubota......SNIP

On a side not, I kinda thought it was funny but as he was first talking he made the coment that it IS normal for the L3200/3800 to "make some metal". I mean come on......make some metal? Thats not very soothing to hear.

Glad to hear they called. I'm the person who hoped that you would hear from them; to me it simply looked like a normal cleaning process had been missed. Frankly, things like that happen in manufacturing. Much as we would like to, it just isn't possible for mere humans to control every single process 100% of the time and also make a product affordable. I think it is a nice to hear publicly that Kubota is concerned about their inspections and process. And it's also my experience that anything involving corporations changing their processes does proceed slowly. So far , it all sounds good to me.

As to the comment of "making metal", I wouldn't read too much into it. From an engineering perspective, anytime one piece of metal runs against another it causes some wear in the form of microscopic particles. That's physics, and that process is sometimes called "making metal". The metal that is made is in very small - often microscopic - particles that are exactly what the filter is designed to strain out of the oil.

Something to think about is when parts are manufactured they are only a perfect fit with whatever they are running against for one very short instant in their life.
For the first part of their life the high and interfering points are being worn down as the parts rotate against each other....and that makes microscopic particles. After they wear for awhile - called "breaking in" - those surfaces become perfectly mated for the only time in their life. They don't get to be perfectly mated for long (though it may be thousands of hours) because the equally inevitable although much slower process of friction begins to wear them both down immediately. Both the breaking in and the frictional wearing of these surfaces "makes metal" particles. Not to worry; designing filters to deal with those tiny particles is well worked out. You can't stop the particles from forming; nobody can. But we can darn sure filter them out and everyone does.
enjoy! rScotty