Not sold in any stores...

Bird · May 13, 2004

( so I'm getting a wheelchair tie-down rig and a portable ramp for the Windstar )

Don, I sure hope you've done your research and know what you're getting and how well it'll work. I had visions of doing just what you're talking about when we bought our Windstar, since both my and my wife's mothers are in wheelchairs. You may already know what I'm going to tell you, and if so, feel free to ignore it, but . . .

I've used both Windstar and Chrysler minivans equipped for wheelchair use; fold out ramps, tie downs, etc. And they have all been extensively modified by lowering the floor. Otherwise, the distance between the floor and the roof is inadequate for a person to sit upright in the wheelchair.

I've also had some experience with full size vans, both with and without powered wheelchair lifts. On those, instead of lowering the floor, they raise the roof. Otherwise, they have the same insufficient distance between the floor and the roof for a person to sit upright in the wheelchair.

The modifications to either full size or mini-van run in the neighborhood of $15k new. Now if you have a good, cheap way to manage a person in a wheelchair with a Windstar, I'd sure appreciate the information.

SnowRidge · May 13, 2004

( A look under the hood will show Bosch instead of Lucas - the latter being the company that kept all those older Jag, MG, Triumph, Morris, and Land Rover users with greasy palms and empty wallets. )

Ahhh, Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. "Fails reliably at sunset," wasn't that the motto?

I once owned a TVR that had--I swear--headlights that would go out every time I drive through a certain tunnel.

Think I'll stick with my U.S. built Toyota.

SnowRidge

California · May 13, 2004

re. econo hatchbacks, I wish someone would make another edition of the 1980 Chevy Citation except this time with modern car reliability.

I bought one new and loved the configuration, a huge hatchback that got 36 mpg in the slow lane or 32 - 34 in the fast lane. I think I only had a couple of tanks under 30 mpg in three years.

Acceleration was excellent with the 4 speed. It didn't trade performance for economy, they did it by reducing weight without reducing outside dimensions. In concept it was the ideal American economy car.

However - It seemed they got the worst of Lucas, Yugo, and Trabant engineers to modify the off-the-shelf GM components it was assembled from. My new Citation was all worn out by 36 k miles. Every critical component had exhausted its useful life - suspension, engine, clutch, A/C, everything. If they had gotten that car right GM could have owned the economy car market for a while. I'll never buy another GM car after that experience.

TresCrows · May 13, 2004

"Let's face it. It's called GREED. The oil companies payoff the auto industry which pays off the politicians to keep the mileage regs. low on gas. As far as safety regulations go"

That is simply not true. You watch the liberal left bent press to much and you are accepting a cliche that really is not true. There is dishonesty everywhere and there are also a bunch of honest companies. I was once pretty dang high up in a well known oil company and trust me, they spent tons of money drilling wells and exploring for oil and their profit to investment ratio was lower--LOWER-- than that which is considered good. The idea that oil companies widely payoff the car companies and the goverment is simply a LIE. Do not believe this foolishness. No one ever paid me not to find oil and no one ever asked me to give anyone a bribe. The EPA regulations and many other things make it very diffucult and extremely expensive to drill domestic. If the oil companies were paying off the governement why would this be the case. Don't answer because I am not interested in fabrications and legend. There are no alchemy equations for turning water into gasoline either or any such foolishness as that. The"oil" companies make more money in the end if their product distribution system remains in place. That is why most oil companies actually have a policy of conservation for the future--you won't believe me though--even though I was there and made such decisions. It is not so much altruism, it is the bottom line is better.
As to this thread--smaller cars---this is exactly what I have been talking about. None of the car companies build small vehicles anymore. I understand building big but some of the stuff on the road today has gone beyond function and is simply big for the sake of being big /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. I want a new truck like my old Toyota but with a quad cab or extended cab and a supercharged 4 cylinder diesel. If the engine were heavy duty it could tow reasonable loads for that size machine and still get super fuel mileage. Modern airbags and all that would improve safety. There is hardly a single car/truck out there anywhere that I have the slightest interest in owning including the ones I have /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. The Corolla Matrix gets pretty good MPG and is darn fast and can be gotten with AWD. I kinda like them. This new Kappa Pontiac Solstice has promise. As to Toyota trucks, they are getting so big I am loosing interest fast.
Darn if some nut got on the highway last night going the wrong way--almost hit me /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif--very close. J

slowrev · May 13, 2004

Tres,
Maybe the Gas companies do not pay off the car companies now but in the past they have banded together to buy up mass transit systems to shut them down so that people would buy auto's gas, oil, and tires. This was in the early days of auto's. LA's traffic might not be nearly so bad if the conglomerates had not bought up the streetcar companies many years ago and shut them down.

TresCrows · May 13, 2004

"Couldn't own a Chevrolet -- or any GM car. Just can't. Don't matter who actually made it. Not in my lifetime. Never again. "

Sorry for a second post. Don, I am there with you. You would be amazed at how many people are like us. I would not buy a GM car if they gave it to me. Ford or Dodge or anyone else, yes, GM no--NEVER. There are lot's of us. Maybe not here in TBN land but out there in the real world, we are not alone. I don't buy GM--period. Oh, and I do kinda like that BMW made Mini Cooper S. I also like the old Renault R5 Rally Sports with the twin engines, the Porche 914, the Fiat X-1/9, the Triumph TR6, Datsun B210, BMW 20002, Datsun 240Z and of course the original flavor Toyota/Datsun mini trucks and mini SUVs (before there was such a thing) such as the original 4Runner with removable top. I like bright colors too, I am tired of Toyota and everyone else's drab earth tones and muted colors. I also kinda like the Toyota Spyder of current make. J

SnowRidge · May 13, 2004

( That is simply not true. You watch the liberal left bent press to much and you are accepting a cliche that really is not true. )

You are right; it's not true, but you are wrong about the liberal left bent press. This stuff doesn't come from any legitimate press, right or left. It comes from the conspiracy theorists, and most of those that I've had the (dis)pleasure of listening to could hardly be called liberal. More properly, they can better be described as lacking in rational thinking capability.

Glad you weren't hit. Our area recently had a similar event. Five were killed. The idiot survived.

SnowRidge

AndyM · May 13, 2004

Couldn't own a Chevrolet -- or any GM car. Just can't. Don't matter who actually made it. Not in my lifetime. Never again. 

I feel about the same way. After owning a string of cars (mostly Ford products), I've owned only three GM products. Two of them were $50 each and I was under 18 years old and the diesel Chevette that I sold last year (which was actually a pretty good car).

I like the looks of the Chevrolet Aveo, but there's three things that turn me off about the car--
1) It's a Chevrolet
2) It's made by Daewoo (It think Kia is the more reliable Korean manufacturer, followed by Hyundai)
3) Despite its small size, it's rated at 27 city and 35 highway.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't a car this small do better than that? The technology has got to be there somewhere for a car this small to get over 40 MPG...

Junkman · May 13, 2004

Is this sporty enough for you???? Don't know how the wife will like it???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OkeeDon · May 13, 2004

Don, I sure hope you've done your research and know what you're getting and how well it'll work...Now if you have a good, cheap way to manage a person in a wheelchair with a Windstar, I'd sure appreciate the information. 

My wife raised the same question, today. When I get home tonight, I'll measure the door opening and the wheel chair. Grandma is very old (100 in August) and kind of slumps in the wheel chair, so she doesn't need as much room as some. I know the chair will fit, because I put it in their after folding it, back when we could still swing her up (with her assistance) into the front seat. But, she's weaker now, and can't help, and we're older now, and can't manage her without both of us pushing and pulling.

We're consulting with two sources - a local company that converts and supplies the handicap vans you described with the raised roofs or lowered floors, and a medical equipment supply company that my wife uses in her work. Both assure us that the system will work. It's a simple system; L tracks bolted to the floor, 4 crash-tested straps to anchor the chair, a lapbelt that fastens to the rear floor straps, and a shoulder harness that fastens to the lapbelt and to a stock shoulder belt fastener. Available on the internet for less than $400, installed by the specialist company for $600. We plan to use a portable, folding ramp that is on the 'net for $300, from the specialist company for under $600, and I'll get the price from the medical supply company from my wife when I get home tonight (she gets a discount).

Grandma doesn't get out much, any longer (we went to my duaghter's high school Spring band concert last night without Grandma for the first time), and, after all, she is going to be 100 years old -- we figure we'll only need it for 10 or 15 years /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, so we don't plan to spend serious money. Either this will work or she won't get out at all unless there's 3 people to get her in the car.

I'll let you know how the measurements work out.