Now I have to learn to weld!

markct · Oct 27, 2004

hmm, that course sounds alot more advanced scope than you need, it sounds like a career welding course since you mention certification and all, i think you need to call around and look for something more like a beginners welding class, or hobby welding class, like you said you just wanna be able to repair and fabricate small stuff around the house, not weld together boats for a living. i would definatly not rule out the welding class option, like i know when i was in trade school even tho they didnt teach welding in machine shop they had classes for learning machining basics, evening classes for adults, they were usualy like 2 or 3 nights a week and for 4 to 6 weeks, not enough to learn the entire trade, more or less just to teach the basics to someone who wants to see what the trades about, or has an old mill or lathe in there garage and wants to know how to use it etc. i think you need to find something like that but for welding not machining of course, or like i said before just get a welder and try it, thats how i learned, and get a few basic welding books too, those will realy help you out. as for buying a welder, check the classifieds in your local paper or trader publications, as well as pawn shops, tag sales etc, thats where i got my big lincoln for only a $100 and it will do alot more and probably outlast any $400 to $500 lincoln or hobart machine, im not saying you need a giant welder, just that you should keep an eye out for a used one, i have seen alot of the little lincoln tombstone buzzboxes at tag sale for 100 to 200 bucks, sometimes less, not alot to go wrong with them, usualy with a transformer type welder they either work or dont work, nothing realy wears out, and if ya cant hook it up to try it when your lookin at it them i would only go for it if its a real good deal, my $100 lincoln was that way, no power where it was at, they wanted 200 bucks so at the end of the day i went back and asked if they would take a hundred and they did, if you cant try it but its a good deal, one way to get an idea too if its burned out is to smell it closely, you may laugh, and the people selling it may laugh at you, but the majority of the time when a welder or transformer burns out it has a burn electric smell to it, good luck

RICHARDG · Oct 27, 2004

Well,,you just need to find a different school is all,,,most community colleges ,,around here,,or vo-tech type schools,,have a welding dept.. now you can go and get a ****. degree if you want,,but alls you have to do is sign up for the semister,,maybe three-four months,,pay your money and take the class,,they offer night classes as well as day classes,,,generally one or two nights a week,,,,they offer in stick,mig,tig... As far as machines,,,,buzz box is cheapest,,they plug into 220/230 outlet,,work fine,,but not portable,,then you got your motor driven welder generators,,cost more,,but potable and don't need to plug in,,also works as generator,,,,,which ever you get,,get one that puts out d.c. current,,a.c./d.c.,,is alright,,just make sure it puts out d.c. as well,,[retifier],,,I would get a stick machine,[as opposed to a mig machine],,get one with enough out put,a 1/8 inch rod is all the biggest you will need to use,which takes about 110-120 amps,,but get one that will put out more than that,,, 150 to 180 amps or more,,,generally if you get one that will put out 150 to 200 amps,,the duty cycle will be enough to let you burn 1/8 or 5/32,rods all day long with out any problems,,,,,as far as brands,,,,lincoln,,,or hobart/miller,,,,don't get one of those off brand ones,,,cause none are made in china,,,,[just kinda kidding???],,now if you want a mig,,which I don't recommend in your case,,,the above still applies,,but duty cycle is much more important with a mig,,,duty cycle,,how many min. you can run out of a given number,,say 10,,without machine tripping a breaker... thingy

hazmat · Oct 27, 2004

the very slight delay in darkening is enough to harm your eyes over time. 

I'm 99.9% sure that it isn't the shade that protects your eyes from permanent damage, that's only for your confort. The glass whether light or dark blocks the harmful UV.

That said - I know I'm blinking for a while if I forget to push the on button /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. but no long term effects (headache etc.)

ronjhall · Oct 27, 2004

Lincoln 225 Amp AC welder. Not much to go wrong and easy to adjust.
Doing a search on TBN for (welder) will get you a lot of information about welding and welders. It's discussed almost as much as oil. Here is one good thread. Click Here.
Auto Darkening helmets has been discussed at length also. Here is a link to one of those threads. Click Here.

DanR67 · Oct 27, 2004

I agree w/ MarkCT - that Welding course sounds like a full-blown program! In contrast - our local technical high school offers a 10 week course (1 night - 3hrs / week @ $400) for each course:

Part 1: Oxy-Acetylene + Arc (Stick)
Part 2: MIG + TIG

For the price of one of these courses - I picked up an almost identical Lincoln as Markct:

After picking up several *How to* welding books - and looking over the size / thickness of the structural components of my FEL - I decided that I needed a welder that could work on steel in the 1/4" - 3/8" thickness range - maybe 1/2" at the thickest. Don't have it in front of me - but I think this put me in the @ 200 amp output range. I went and spoke to the local welding supply company - they sell Miller - and was considering getting a Thunderbolt XL 225 or 300 - until I found this *dinosaur*! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was able to *test drive* it so I knew it worked.

I am happy I ended up getting a *larger* (for my needs - AND physically!) unit - I mainly wanted to make sure that I got good penetration in the base material. I like to see the heat discoloration on the opposite side from the weld - while I know that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good weld - I feel pretty confident that I'm mixing the rod and the base metals together nicely! (at least good enough for my needs)

So between doing some *hack* stick welding with a *buzzbox* at a farm job some 20 yrs ago - a day playing with MIG welders in the *apprentice shop* at our company's European HQ @ 10 yrs ago - and "reading up" in the *How to* books - I think I managed to do OK with my 1st project: 3 PH Forks / Ball Hitch .

Although I haven't done much welding by any standard - since I have done some (mostly stick) and also work with high (480 V) voltage industrial equipment - I have a certain sense and great deal of respect for the voltages / electricity involved. So for no other reason I would recommend some kind of training class for complete novices to at least learn basic welding safety.

My reasons for buying a welder:
1) Satisfaction in *doing it myself*
2) Cost to buy equipment @ equal to simply buying a 3PH fork attachment - but now I can build anything else I need
3) I'm ready for any *patch* repairs if I happen to break something on my CUT.

All that being said - having a small Oxy-Acetylene setup would be nice for cutting purposes too - an abrasive chop saw can only do so much - plus it's *portable*. I might pick one up at some point - but I'd definitely want some professional training - I would worry about screwing up the gas mixture - I read that you can get combustion inside the torch! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I guess to sum it up: welding is an blend of science, skill and art - I find it very satisfying to look at the *finished product* at the end of the day - which started simply with a pile of scrap! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Cheers,

Dan

Cliff_Johns · Oct 27, 2004

So what I can't figure out is how much amperage at the plug is required for the listed welding amps. That is, you buy a 235AMP welder that's pluged into a 220 VOLT plug -- well you sure aren't drawing 235 AMPS at 230 VOLTS. So I'm thinking the welding voltage is reduced or somthing.

When someone says, "you just plug it into a 220 outlet," what amperage does that 220 volt outlet need to be for most stick welders?

I looked at the Hobart page and the required input amps is not listed. At least I couldn't find it.

Cliff

RICHARDG · Oct 27, 2004

Thats a good question for one of those electic people out there,,,used generator type most of the time,,and am not an electriction,,,[see,can't spell it either],somebody knows the answer to your question though,,,and am interested my self,,,thingy

DanR67 · Oct 27, 2004

Cliff -

I hopped over to the Hobart site - here's a link to their LX 235 AC / 160 DC model. Click on the 4th tab "Specifications" - about halfway down it states "Amps Input at Rated Output, 50/60 Hz" - in this case 47.5 Amps at full load.

I had an electrician install a "welding outlet" - to be more specific a NEMA 6-50 style outlet. (6-50R = receptacle / 6-50P = plug) It basically look like a *super-sized* household 3-prong outlet.

While my welder is technically rated at 120 Amps input at 400 V output - I only run it at half it's capacity - so I think a 50 Amp 6-50 receptacle would work for just about everyones' *hobby* needs. I haven't tripped my circuit breaker, and the cables are staying cool.

If you look at the above link, you'll see that there aren't any higher amperage, 250 V plugs - so anything bigger would have to be hardwired. I've got a 30' SO #4 *extension cord* + 25' electrode and ground cables - this is because I store the welder in one location - and plug it in somewhere else - so it is "plug-wired". Someday I hope to increase the electrical service to my garage - then I'll hardwire it to get more capacity.

Beware: the 6-50 plug was nearly $50 alone! (after my company discount! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) The welding cables etc. aren't exactly cheap either! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hope that helps!

Dan

Gary_in_Indiana · Oct 28, 2004

'When someone says, "you just plug it into a 220 outlet," what amperage does that 220 volt outlet need to be for most stick welders?

I looked at the Hobart page and the required input amps is not listed. At least I couldn't find it." 

I have the little Hobart 175 Mig unit so I called Hobart when I was putting wiring in my barn. Here's what I was told; One of the selling points on the 175 is that it only requires a 35 amp circuit. If I move up to anything larger, I'd need to go to a 50 amp circuit.

Cliff_Johns · Oct 28, 2004

( I hopped over to the Hobart site - here's a link to their LX 235 AC / 160 DC model. Click on the 4th tab "Specifications" - about halfway down it states "Amps Input at Rated Output, 50/60 Hz" - in this case 47.5 Amps at full load. )

OK, so I can't see. Thanks for pointing it out and explaining the fixture. It's just what I needed to know. If I put that type outlet in my workshop, I should be covered. I planned to put a 100AMP service to the workshop, but I didn't really know how I needed to lay it out in the box.

thanks again.
Cliff