NX6010 suction side hydro leak

[Overtaxed]

Argh. I cannot catch a break on hydraulics. As the weather has gotten colder, I'm starting to hear more noise in the hydro system, especially when the fluid is cold. Started it today and the FEL was moving like it had a case of palsy for the first 20 mins or so. Check the hydro oil, looks OK, a little high but I think I see bubbles (looking into the fill plug from the back) and I hear a noise like air. It eventually works itself out as the machine heats up and works fine, but... I think I have a leak in the suction side of the hydro system, the pump just did not sound right (like it wasn't even/pulling air) today, and I don't think I should have those little bubbles in the system.

Crawled under the tractor, nothing evident, there's only a few fittings between the hydro pump and the tank, and all of them looked OK. Of course, there's the filter, I spun it some of the way off (until oil dribbled through) and then put it back on (probably tighter than it should be). No change.

Any ideas where to look/secrets to finding suction side leaks that others might care to pass along?

 

[YLee Kioti]

Noticed the Hydraulic filter is on the suction side of the hyd. pump.
Made me scratch my head as I saw a rubber hose with hose clamps.
Did not mention or I missed it but have you looked at that area?

Maybe try a sealant around the perimeter of the hose that slips over the suction pipe see what happens.
That rubber hose may have a hairline crack and will not leak. Once cranked up it's pulling fluid through.
So maybe a saran wrap piece wrapped up all over the entire hose to see how it sounds when cranked also.
Regards...

 

[Overtaxed]

Noticed the Hydraulic filter is on the suction side of the hyd. pump.
Made me scratch my head as I saw a rubber hose with hose clamps.
Did not mention or I missed it but have you looked at that area?

Maybe try a sealant around the perimeter of the hose that slips over the suction pipe see what happens.
That rubber hose may have a hairline crack and will not leak. Once cranked up it's pulling fluid through.
So maybe a saran wrap piece wrapped up all over the entire hose to see how it sounds when cranked also.
Regards...

I found that too, it looks like the obvious place for this problem to arise. I tried cranking it down more, no result. Then I backed it off and it did leak (with the engine off). But yeah, not exactly the best way to put that together, especially since it's the underside of the tractor, just waiting for a branch to come blow a hole in it. I'll try the saran wrap tomorrow, I was thinking about just using RTV or silicone to really get a good joint there.

Sucks because I can't find a mechanic willing to come to me so I'm looking at shipping/delivery on the tractor to get it somewhere for diagnosis and resolution. Honestly though, with my "hydro luck", I'm almost at the point of "you know what, just fix it!". The wonder of warranty!

 

[xcgreene]

Would be interesting to know what type of hyd/trans fluid you've got in there. If its still the stuff from the dealer, it is possible they are using an incorrect fluid, which has happened on a number of occasions. The suction filter may also be played out. Just some thoughts.

 

[YLee Kioti]

One thing for sure Kioti seems to believe a lot in the, put it together and dip it all in paint!....

Makes visual troubleshooting very difficult.

Good luck hope it helps narrow it down...

 

[Overtaxed]

One thing for sure Kioti seems to believe a lot in the, put it together and dip it all in paint!...

Yeah, tell me about it. I was looking at that connection and I couldn't even see the the hose clamp because it was totally covered in paint! And yes, it does make it difficult to see or work on things, as long as the paint stays, of course!

Gonna try the saran wrap trick tomorrow, we'll see if that tells me anything.

Also, I'm running Mobifluid 424 in the tractor. That made a big difference coming from Kioti fluid, much smoother. Did a full hydro fluid change and all the filter about 50 hours ago.

 

[YLee Kioti]

I'm with you on the so called OEM fluid.
Let us know how you like the Mobil 424 fluid after you've had a few hours of run time.

Went to NAPA and ordered 10 gallons of full synthetic. (Coastal) Did not retail in smaller containers so went to local bota dealer and got a gallon in case it needed topping off. But 10 gallons was dead center of indicator.
Now the machine starts up and there is no hyd surge and loud whining noise.
The range shift selector is a whole lot smoother, etc. no down side for sure.
Slowly learning about dealers. I do not see Kioti dealers using a vendor specific Hyd fluid but rather whatever a good salesman talked them into using.

Not knowing what is the OEM fill I sure did not want anymore of that stuff. Loud whining, had to always jiggle lever and a pedal to engage a range etc. it was very irritating.
Well drifting off topic maybe. Keep us updated.

Regards....



Is this the fluid your dealer retails?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Argh. I cannot catch a break on hydraulics. As the weather has gotten colder, I'm starting to hear more noise in the hydro system, especially when the fluid is cold. Started it today and the FEL was moving like it had a case of palsy for the first 20 mins or so. Check the hydro oil, looks OK, a little high but I think I see bubbles (looking into the fill plug from the back) and I hear a noise like air. It eventually works itself out as the machine heats up and works fine, but... I think I have a leak in the suction side of the hydro system, the pump just did not sound right (like it wasn't even/pulling air) today, and I don't think I should have those little bubbles in the system.

Crawled under the tractor, nothing evident, there's only a few fittings between the hydro pump and the tank, and all of them looked OK. Of course, there's the filter, I spun it some of the way off (until oil dribbled through) and then put it back on (probably tighter than it should be). No change.

Any ideas where to look/secrets to finding suction side leaks that others might care to pass along?

I don't think you have a problem. I think you're hearing cavitation on the pump due to cold hydro oil. Watch my video on cold start-up. BTW, Mobilfluid 424 is the same spec as J20C-D. I run Napa's universal hydro-trans oil in my machine and it works just fine.

https://sciencing.com/difference-between-j20c-j20d-fluid-12011149.html

 

[YLee Kioti]

@Eric
Thanks for the video and the info on cold weather starts.
Although we never see that range in south Texas it seems to be good practice to allow machine parts and fluids to warm up and allow thermal expansion before trying to hammer the machine with work.

Regards...

 

[Overtaxed]

Well, had the dealer out, showed him the problem and his exact words, "that's not right". So, hopefully there's something that is really wrong that they can fix. I've had a string of "hydro issues" that I suspect all come back to this. I had issues with my tractor "making oil" since new (pull the stick cold, it's in range, pull the stick hot, it comes out the hole it's so overful). Also, if I open the fill hole, I can actually see bubbles (tiny, bubbles) in there and hear something that sounds off. So; we'll see, but the dealer took the tractor tonight and said his best guess is something in the hydro pump that's not sealed.

Thanks for the video Eric, and yes, that's kind of what mine sounds like. Mine is worse, but it's the same basic noise. Here's the thing though, my JD (also a hydro) doesn't do this at all. I go out start it, and all the hydro is smooth as silk from 30 seconds in. So, if this is "normal" then it's not a feather in Kioti's cap, that's for sure. I'm petty sure it's not normal though, I should have recorded video for you guys, but, when I get it back, I'll get some video of it "fixed" for comparison.