Oil & Fuel Off Road vs Highway Diesel

[Cidertom]

Sulpher vs not I don't know, but I noticed something strange here this last week.

On road diesel -tax is "cheaper" than off road diesel. H'mmmm

So why is ultra low cheaper to make?

 

[ray66v]

I would think that the lower the sulfur level in the fuel, the better. During the combustion process sulfur dioxide is produced. Mix sulfur dioxide with water, in the form of condensation and what do you get? Sulfuric acid, which corrodes metal. Why adhering to specified oil change intervals in diesels is crucial.

This is what I am being told by the Engineers that I know.

 

[RobJ]

OH NO.................here we go again! Come December 1st, 2014 all we will have is Ultra-low sulfur.

Sincerely, Dirt

For most it's 2012. We sell mostly to the marine and some trucking folks so I'm not sure if we can go until 2014. We do 80k bpd now...not all diesel. We are looking at putting in a diesel hydro desulphurisation unit. To run this you need hydrogen, we're looking at a reformer for that. Can you say millions and millions??

 

[LBrown59]

We have 1 fuel here.
It has several aliases such as.
on road
off road
home heating oil
fuel oil
== L B ==

 

[exiled]

John Deere allows the use of 15 ppm Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel fuel (more commonly known as ULSD or S15 Diesel Fuels) in all Engine Models as long as the diesel fuel used meets the latest ASTM D-975 diesel fuel lubricity specification which allows up to a 520-micron maximum wear scar diameter measured on a High Frequency Reciprocating Test Rig (HFRR). This new ASTM lubricity standard was introduced on 01 January 2005, and applies to both on-road and off-road diesel fuels.

Additives for lubricity should not be necessary. Like Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, ULSD fuel requires good lubricity and corrosion inhibitors to prevent unacceptable engine wear. Additives to increase lubricity and to inhibit corrosion will be added to ULSD fuel prior to its retail sale. With these additives, ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.

Generally speaking, the same oil refinery process used to reduce Sulfur content also removes Oxygen, Nitrogen, aromatic compounds, and other key characteristics in diesel fuel, which are considered to be natural fuel lubricity agents. Sulfur content by itself has little to do with fuel lubricity. Many oil refineries are now adding back in other fuel lubricity agents to prevent the former diesel fuel lubricity and rubber seal deterioration fiasco experienced back in 1993 and 1994. Reducing the sulfur content of diesel fuel from 500 ppm to 15 ppm will have no significant effect on engine fuel economy, fuel density, fuel heating value, or fuel lubricity.

Sorry for the long post!

SD

4 out of the 5 test I've read should that most ultra's by them selves{without addivities} does not pass the scar test. The ones that did pass just made the lowest possible to pass the astmd-975. The fuel companies are just putting in enough additives to satify the goverment. However The enigine builder's something other{I cant think of the name right now to save my life} specs are higher than what the goverment says.

I dont think ultra makes any differnce in MPG at least I have'nt seen any. Sulfer is a lube. When liquid sulfer heats its viscity rises. I cant remember the temps its been awhile since I was in school. The liquid sulfer helps in the injection system. Sulfer dioxide accurs after being burnt which is then in the exhuast.

 

[Egon]

Actually, the sulphur does not act like a lubricant but comes in conjunction with elements that do act as a lubricant. When the sulphur is removed these elements are also removed.

There is a fellow poster here who is very familiar with the actual chemical process and can properly explain what takes place.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Sulfer dioxide accurs after being burnt which is then in the exhuast.

It doesn't all go out the exhaust. Some combustion gas/soot gets by the rings (blow-by) and mixes with the crank case oil.
Also why the oil turns black so quickly after changing it.

 

[sd624]

4 out of the 5 test I've read should that most ultra's by them selves{without addivities} does not pass the scar test. The ones that did pass just made the lowest possible to pass the astmd-975. The fuel companies are just putting in enough additives to satify the goverment. However The enigine builder's something other{I cant think of the name right now to save my life} specs are higher than what the goverment says.

I dont think ultra makes any differnce in MPG at least I have'nt seen any. Sulfer is a lube. When liquid sulfer heats its viscity rises. I cant remember the temps its been awhile since I was in school. The liquid sulfer helps in the injection system. Sulfer dioxide accurs after being burnt which is then in the exhuast.

Exiled,

I would like to see that data....Do you have it?

 

[exiled]

Actually, the sulphur does not act like a lubricant but comes in conjunction with elements that do act as a lubricant. When the sulphur is removed these elements are also removed.

There is a fellow poster here who is very familiar with the actual chemical process and can properly explain what takes place.

Egon reading back over my statement I might have stated it wrong. I did'nt mean it like sulfer was "THE" lubricant. I do not contest that the process of removing sulfer removes other elements that are the lubricants. Generaly when you say that when they took out the sulfer they took out lubricant, that is a true statement and you dont have to have a science class about it.
I did'nt say sulfer acted like a lubricant. I said it was a lubricant. Liquid sulfer when heated its viscity rises. Is that not a lube? Does that not help the moving parts inside an injector? Does the removeual of sulfer it self make that big of an inpact if the other elements where to stay? I seriously dont know. But I do know this most lubricants lose viscity when heated or gets warm. Meaning they thin. So I think sulfer might help alittle in an engine system that's on the rather hot side.
I did'nt mean ALL Sulfer dioxide exited the engine. Buts lets face it, Sulfer dioxide and sulferic acid aint realling killing our oil. I know several guys with 99-03? 7.3L diesels that change their oil on 10,000 mile oil changes. Kev's 2,000 dually has over 500,000 miles and never been worked on and the oil has never been changed under 10,000 miles. 6.0Ls can barly make it to 7,500
mile oil changes. I change mine every 7,500 miles and BlackStone tells me I need to drop down to 5,000. 6.0Ls just shred{shear}the oil down. Maybe its the tight tolernces of the "new" diesels. Gas burners cant get much better than 5,000 miles oil changes. So I dont see how the ultra is helping oil cause of getting rid of sulferic acid or lowering the levels of it. I mwill be bold and dare say that probally the most corrioning threat we face for our diesels is the wrong coolant or not changing out the right one when needed or at least adding sca.
Their not taking the sulfer out of the diesel to help the engines. Its to make the fuel greener "more earth friendly". The old diesels will not care what you throw in there it'll burn it and just keep going. My whole point to Ken is that the Off road and High is the same but color and price of tax. But in the event his off road is indeed low or high sulfer his engine would probally do better burning it unless it is a new engine built to gain from the low or ultra low.

sd624, here is all the links I have left. I'll go threw them later and if this is'nt enough I'll the rest. I found alot od information when I was researching biodiesel logic's way of making biodiesel just cant see paying the $17,000 for the stuff to make it with, and soybean additives and biodiesel. Its not just my opion that their killing the fuel. Not to mention making it too expenceive. Alot of people shares this opinion. I should have worded my statement as Raw ultra instead of ultra by it's self. But I think you knew what I was talking about. Ultra low before the company puts some kind of lubricant and additives to it.

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

Intertek OCA Testing, Inspection and Consulting Services

Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additive Study

ScienceDirect - Fuel : Study on the lubrication properties of biodiesel as fuel lubricity enhancers

"SPICER LUBRICITY DIESEL" - topic profile :: BoardReader

Fischer-Tropsch Condensate Boosts Lubricity In Synthetic Diesel: Study | Global Refining & Fuels Report | Find Articles at BNET.com

Fwd: Re: Lubricity Additive Study for the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel - swvabiod | Google Groups

DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY - Page 3 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

 

[SCDolphin]

I have a gas station close by that sells 10% biodiesel which when I put it in a 5 gal container foams like it has soap in it, feels greasier and smells better than standard diesel when burned.