oil pan heaters

greg_g · Dec 11, 2005

( As far as what is said on this and other forums, i ignore a lot of it because it is said by guys with thier own opinions, rather than research and development data. If oil pan heaters were so great i think you would see more of them installed on commercial diesel engines from the factory but they use block heaters instead because its what they found works best. )

I think I should have said narrow rather than uninformed. Because it now sounds like you basically ignore anything that doesn't agree with your own line of thinking. All I'm trying to do here, is relate my own experiences to justify one engine heater option for DOGFARM to consider. Whereas you're free to offer your own, please don't attack mine.

Correctly sized oil pan heaters indeed DO heat the water jackets by virtue of the physical law that says heat rises . I can testify to that from personal experience. 15 degrees in the shed this morning, and the side of the engine block was warm to the touch - from the parasitic heat rising from a pair of 125w pan heaters. Rising heat enters the water jackets first, which in turn transfer some heat to the block. How much or course, depends on the ambient temp.

I've pulled pans on my tractors too, and also have seen crud accumulated opposite the heater locations - just like you. You may have experienced "coking" from a incorrectly sized heaters. But on my tractors that crud is nothing more than wear residue/carbon/dirt that has been ionized by the magnetic field of the electric heater. Wipes right off with a rag, and works just as good as the old magnet in the pan trick.

Check around. I'll wager the majority of factory installed block heaters will be on vehicles that have HEATER cores. Coolant heaters represent a compromise solution; providing
-some heat to the block,
-little to the oil,
-but obviously get heat to the operator/driver a whole lot faster (than an oil heater).

Coolant heaters are user-friendly, a properly sized oil heater is engine-friendly.

//greg//

Egon · Dec 11, 2005

Check around -30 country. Take note of what heaters are predominant. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

schmalts · Dec 11, 2005

No Gregg ,I dont ignore anything that isnt the same as my line of thinking, but i have seen a lot of poor advice given on a lot of these forums. not saying your advise is poor, i was just saying that a lot of guys giving advice on a lot of forums are far from correct.
And yes, coming from a occupation that is in the research and development engineering atmosphere i have a lot of data, and engineers to ask advice and get real data (including engineers who have worked for Cat, Cummings, and JD). I never was attacking you at all. Just making a statement that heating the coolant is a better way to transfer heat to where it is best needed for cold starting. I agree it is a good idea to keep the oil warm to get faster cranking speeds. Maybe a small wattage glue on type on the pan, but then i would suggest spending the rest of the electric bill on heating the mid and upper portion of the engine where starting counts.
I would make a guess that if your tractor was outside in a stiff cold wind on a very cold day if you took a infrared temp gun tested the temps of the block, head, and oil pan you would have less heat in the upper part of the engine than the lower due to the heat loss radiating off as it worked its way up, regardless that heat rises. So with that, warm oil is not a big advantage if the mid to upper end of the engine is cold, or should i say it is more advantage as far as starting an engine if the heat was in the upper end of the engine.
Heating the oil is not even needed as long as you replace the oil with a winter type, although it is a good idea.
The epoxy on type of heaters are popular on Air cooled engines and are very popular for small aircraft. Tannis makes a real nice system for aircraft engines. But those are installed with 3-4 smaller patches rather than one big one. One small patch on the oil pan and the rest on the block where the cylinders bolt on.

schmalts · Dec 11, 2005

(
Check around -30 country. Take note of what heaters are predominant. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )
Well, what ones are?? dont keep us hanging /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Egon · Dec 11, 2005

Coolant heaters, most are in the block with some on the lower rad hoze. They both work equally well.

Heating the coolant sets up convection currents so the whole block gets warm including the oil. This happens by heat conduction through the engine metal.

If we want a warm interior we use in car heaters.

Egon

schmalts · Dec 11, 2005

Yep, that is correct, and coincides with the data i have seen.
When heating just the oil pan a large portion of the heat is radiated off the sides of the pan as the heat rises, and lost before it makes it up to the mid to upper engine where it is most usefull for starting. The inside air pocket between the oil itself and the block is a poor conductor (air is a poor heat conductor) so the majority of the heat wicks up the sides of the cast oil pan and is lost to cold winds before it gets to the top of the engine.
Not that most guys would really care about the electric bill but in order to get the upper engine warm using an oil pan heater you would need a much higher wattage device VS a freeze plug heater.

greg_g · Dec 11, 2005

( in order to get the upper engine warm using an oil pan heater you would need a much higher wattage device VS a freeze plug heater. )

Again, I will cite personal experience to the contrary. I have a 500w block heater (fixed thermostat control) on my Mercedes turbo diesel, and two 125w pan heaters (thermocouple control) on my KAMA. Both are parked in unheated, open-ended structures. Both have Rotella-T 15W40 in the crankcase and 80C thermostats. Let's take this morning, 15 degrees. After starting the Benz, I got interior heat almost immediately. In fact, I could see the temp gauge needle move up even before hitting the glow plugs. But after starting, I had very high oil pressure - indicating thick oil. Lots of valve train clatter. In a few minutes, the oil pressure started going down - oil was finally thin enough to go to work.

I already mentioned that the KAMA block was warm to the touch from the pan heaters. No glow plugs on this tractor by the way. I opened the compression release, spun the starter, saw oil pressure on the gauge in less than 10 seconds. THEN I let go of the compression release and she fired right off. Once running, it took <2 min to see movement on the temp gauge.

Each to his own, and for some folks a block heater is the right tool for the job. Never see -30F nights here, and no cab heater on the tractor - so for my situation, oil pan heaters are MY tool of choice.

//greg//

dogfarm · Dec 14, 2005

Thanks to all who responded with their advice and preferences. I guess I've sort of joined the oil pan heater camp insofar as I ordered a pair of Wolverine heaters. We'll see how well they do. I wish I had them on already as it was -5F this morning. I didn't need to start the Kama, but sooner or later I'll be needing it when it's early and cold.

I'll let you all know my experience after I've had a chance to see how they work in the cold.

Have a Merry and a Happy, All

Steve