Old Dozer Re-power

[franklin2]

I was reading the homemade dozer/crawler thread with great interest. I saw a lot of discussion on track design, etc. Has anyone ever thought about buying a old dozer with serious problems and converting it over to hydrostatic type drive?

For instance I saw on Craigslist a old John Deere 1010 crawler. It is getting water in one of the engine's cylinder's. I did some research on it, and these old dozers are not very popular, they were supposedly underpowered and parts are very very expensive if they can be found at all.

But if you approach this thing with the "build it yourself" mentality, it looks to me like you would have tracks and a frame, with a loader, bucket, etc. What if you found a more modern engine, used a 2 or 3 ganged hydraulic pump mounted to a engine, dropped it in place, and then bought hydraulic motors to supply power to the tracks? Has anyone ever converted a old dozer over to a hydraulic drive? Would the Surplus center actually have motors and pumps large enough to propel a small dozer like this?

The original specs for the dozer were 28hp drawbar, 36hp pto, it came gas or diesel, and weighed in at 7580lbs.

 

[Renze]

Why would you want hydrostatic drive ? you need variable stroke pumps and those are expensive, especially when buying aftermarket.
The engine is an inline 4 cylinder 2500rpm motor, not a johnny popper so that gives you plenty of choice for an engine swap within the same space. A 3 cylinder tractor engine or a 4 cylinder compact Kubota or passenger car engine.

 

[bcp]

Videos:

D2 caterpillar crawler re powered with Holden 202 - YouTube

Redneck Chevy powered Tank - YouTube

Over the years I've read of several Cat dozers repowered with V8 gas engines with their transmission in front of the Cat transmission. Not for serious work, but for an occasional use farm utility dozer.

Bruce

 

[Renze]

or search the Volvo BM Bamse forest tractor... just skid steer like tracks running on three axles with rubber wheels..

BM Bamse -61 - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFZhHs_hc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3fc1Xl79KA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU5K6eKE2oQ

Then you can take just any tractor with good spares availability and toss some tracks around the axles...

 

[Tor Arne]

or search the Volvo BM Bamse forest tractor... just skid steer like tracks running on three axles with rubber wheels..

BM Bamse -61 - YouTube

Some Digging With The Frog G-612 Part 2/2 - YouTube

Ferguson 35 med halvband (DEL 2) - YouTube

Ferguson TEA 20 Chenille track TTA de Bombardier - YouTube

Then you can take just any tractor with good spares availability and toss some tracks around the axles...

Only problem is that the Bamse was built by the Øsa company with similar steering clutches as the dozers.

 

[franklin2]

Why would you want hydrostatic drive ? you need variable stroke pumps and those are expensive, especially when buying aftermarket.
The engine is an inline 4 cylinder 2500rpm motor, not a johnny popper so that gives you plenty of choice for an engine swap within the same space. A 3 cylinder tractor engine or a 4 cylinder compact Kubota or passenger car engine.

Well, I admit I do not know that much about it, but it seems the clutches that you use to steer the dozer always wear out, the engines don't run, etc. I figured you could gut the driveline and get the same results with hydraulics. But maybe not. I have worked on a couple of skidsteers before, and saw they were just a hydraulic motor driving a sprocket on both sides. It looked like it had 3 pumps stacked together, one to make it go, one for the bucket, and one for the accessory ports. Maybe I didn't look at it close enough, but it looked like it did have a fancy valve hooked to the levers to control the hydraulic motors. Are you saying these control valves are expensive and hard to find/make out of standard stuff?

I have also worked on a Dixie Chopper and I think it has the system you are talking about, it has a pump/valve combo, one on each side hooked to each lever, and then lines from that down to each hydraulic motor on each wheel.

People seem to be building their own frames and tracks, loader arms, buckets, buying all the valves and cylinders. I thought a older small dozer with problems would eliminate a lot of fabrication.

 

[Wolfy]

By the time the engines on these old dozers died, the rest of the machine was likely worn out. If there was ever a machine that has a tough life, it has to be a dozer.

 

[Cpjlube]

To the OP.
I see your point. You are wanting to start with a known device and then reengineer it, using hydraulic skid steer technology.
I like the idea......... but.
Every time I have tried to modify a piece of machinery I run into issues I never realized until I'm in pretty deep. Most of the time it would have been easier to start from scratch.
If I were to undertake this project I would take th he time to look at my project machine and make sure my plan worked. Does the equipment fit? Can I keep costs reasonable? Etc.
Good luck. Post pics.

 

[jd4310man]

Thats an interesting idea but just to pull it off would require a lot of expensive hydrostatic parts. Most if not all skid steer loaders use a variable piston pump and fixed displacement piston or gerotor type motors. You might be able to use a regular gear pump with gerotor motors. I have a magnatrac that uses this arrangement and works well. The only complaint is it is very slow moving. It would also require a bit of engineering to select the right size components to make it work properly on a re-power. I repowered my magnatrac with a diesel and changed from a two pump system to a one pump system. I was off with the first pump as it was too big. It had speed, but no power. So I had to get a smaller pump for it to work properly. Another problem is how to connect the drive motors to the existing drive system? It would require some change to the final drive of the dozer to attach sprockets to the output shafts. Anything is possible, but at what cost and time to put into it.

 

[Willie B]

Stock, a 1010 was a sweet machine. With blade or a winch they were amazing. Not able to push a mountain in one pass it could in a million passes. Engines are available, or parts for one. If you don't want it, I would like to know more. Re power seems like too much engineering for a one off, replacing a leaking wet sleeve not bad at all.

 

[roygage]

But if you approach this thing with the "build it yourself" mentality, it looks to me like you would have tracks and a frame, with a loader, bucket, etc. What if you found a more modern engine, used a 2 or 3 ganged hydraulic pump mounted to a engine, dropped it in place, and then bought hydraulic motors to supply power to the tracks?

I hear you and understand your thinking. Why re-invent the wheel right? What if instead of buying expensive new hydraulics you used units off a old combine?

 

[Renze]

If your intention is to just get a means of moving dirt, there are easier alternatives, i suppose you already have a tractor around ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8DV6hD3HEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6SOpcDGNxo

Or on 2wd tractors in India:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_wXCt4yuE
And America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6PvNM4EZHU
with a little counterweight on the back they are just as capable as a dozer of the same weight, they can just move the same load faster because of the higher power to weight ratio

Or just pull type:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMHJ85HdFM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lAW4JolK1E

And if your intention is to blow your savings on a unique home made dozer, you better start from scratch, you'll end up spending the money anyways but then youve got to work around the existing parts.

 

[Willie B]

That old International moving snow reminds me of my first "big" tractor, A John Deere 410. I reasoned I wouldn't need tire chains, the tractor being so big and all. These things are a 7 ton hockey puck, they go where gravity wants them to go. I learned tire chains are a matter of life or death.

 

[buickanddeere]

Do you want a tinker project being thta you have lots of time and money? Or are you trying to save $$$ and have a dozer.
Donor engines from old JD combines are a drop in swap.
If you insist on a repower. The 1010 bel housing bolt pattern is identical to the two cylinder Dubuque pattern. A donor 440ID will bolt the 2-53 Detroit Diesel onto the 1010.
The engine is the last thing to worry about and the cheapest item to repair. It's that undercarriage and steering clutches to be concerned with.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think once you start pricing out what the parts cost, you'll find it a lot cheaper to buy one already running. There is a reason that they get to a point that they are only worth scrap. I have a Case 1550 dozer that weighs 40,000 pounds and has a 170 hp Cummins turbo diesel engine. It is hydrostatic drive with three different hydraulic pumps. One for each track, and one for the blade. Each pump costs $30,000 new from the dealer. Good luck trying to find a replacement that will do the job for less, they don't exist. You might find a used on in another dozer, but that's not likely either. I ended up rebuilding one of my pumps for $3,000 after I took it out and brought it to the shop, then installed it myself.

Add the price of hoses, brackets, the reservoir, drive motors, and how you are going to control it and you could easily have a running dozer that already does everything for less then just the parts. As for the time it would take to figure this out and make it work? There's just no telling, but I'm guessing four times what you estimate. Probably the same with your budget. Quadruple it and then rethink if it's worth your time and money when you can buy a decent sized, running machine that is in need of some upkeep and repairs, but running and able to do the job for $20 to $40 grand.

Eddie

 

[franklin2]

I think my main problem is I had a too simplistic notion of how a hydrostatic system worked. I supposed that's why it wasn't used much in the old days, till technology caught up? From the few technical terms mentioned in this thread, sounds like it takes some complex pieces to make a one-off drive system. I have worked on a lot of equipment that the only thing hooked to the engine was a large hydraulic pump. Everything else was hoses and valving.

I have messed around with a few hydrostatic tractors also. One I remember was a small Kubota. It looked to me like a regular geared tractor, they even kept the clutch, regular looking transaxle, and the hydrostatic unit seemed to be a thin unit that they "sandwiched" between the clutch output and the transaxle input. Is this also too simplistic interpretation or is that what they actually did on some of these?

 

[City Farmer]

This is a project that's a lot of years out that I'm going to take on. I'm sure everyone here has already seen it but I'll post the link anyway. Maybe you could drive the tracks off the pto with a gear box, like the snow machine.
Fordson Snow Machine - 1929 Concept - YouTube

 

[bcp]

This is a project that's a lot of years out that I'm going to take on. I'm sure everyone here has already seen it but I'll post the link anyway. Maybe you could drive the tracks off the pto with a gear box, like the snow machine.
Fordson Snow Machine - 1929 Concept - YouTube

I hope your project works out better than this one.

Fordson Snow Machine -College Project - YouTube

Bruce

 

[City Farmer]

I hope your project works out better than this one.

Fordson Snow Machine -College Project - YouTube

Bruce

Hahahahaha, now that's funny. I'm pretty sure my 9yr old could've told you how all that was going to work out.

 

[The Fred]

I was going to repower this old Case 310 with a Volvo engine but once I found that G148 parts are available cheap I saved the old girl. Did this job in 1997 and never looked back, it starts and runs like new down to below zero. Not many creature comforts like newer machines but it gets the job done skidding a few trees for firewood or fixing the driveway after a big storm.

A few years ago I found a Gearmatic #9 winch and rebuilt that. I have over 15 grand tied up in all but have also used this thing for 16 years. I wouldn't trade it for anything because I would never get my investment back.

Last Spring the flywheel ring gear went bad and I called the Case IH dealer. They got me a new gear for $114.00. Hard to beat old machinery. Points are available at Traiter Supply too.

Fred