Old Ford Tractors Engine Interchangeability

[JLMissouri]

I have a ford 861 diesel that the engine just had something bad happen. It got me to wondering what engines could be swapped in with little to no work. I would assume a gas engine from a 861 or 4 cylinder 4000 would go right in. What else? How about older engines like a 8N or a Jubilee?

 

[Kirk-NJ]

NG on the 8n engine. But if you are changing out the engine to gas then Basically the 134 engine from a jubilee,600,601, 2000 or 172 engine from an 800,801,4000 or later industrial 192 engine will bolt up. (All 4 cyl) You will have to clean your fuel tank good and plug the standpipe. You can keep parts like generator and starter which are already 12 volt, possibly the air cleaner if you have the one that bolts to the side on the hood. If you have the box style then you might have to shorten the battery box and use the standard 801 air cleaner.
Do not try to fix your diesel with gas engine parts cause block, heads and internal parts are different.

Kirk

 

[Eyecatcher]

That brings up an interesting idea! Are there any diesels that will swap easily into the N series?

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Not without an adapter between the engine and trans and frame to axle carrier. Anything is possible with enough time and money. Here's a shot of my chevy V6 being mated to my 8n.


Kirk

 

[Eyecatcher]

Interesting swap! Did you ever get it operational? Have a friend who has a jubilee, and just looking at the two of them, it appears the o'head would replace the flat head pretty easily. I guess the hydraulics might pose a problem. I'd rather figure out a small diesel swap-in.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

I never did but hopefully will finish it up this year.

 

[JLMissouri]

NG on the 8n engine. But if you are changing out the engine to gas then Basically the 134 engine from a jubilee,600,601, 2000 or 172 engine from an 800,801,4000 or later industrial 192 engine will bolt up. (All 4 cyl) You will have to clean your fuel tank good and plug the standpipe. You can keep parts like generator and starter which are already 12 volt, possibly the air cleaner if you have the one that bolts to the side on the hood. If you have the box style then you might have to shorten the battery box and use the standard 801 air cleaner.
Do not try to fix your diesel with gas engine parts cause block, heads and internal parts are different.

Kirk

Thanks for the help, good to know the smaller gas engine will bolt up as well.

 

[Soundguy]

If you repowered an n with a red tiger, the Hyde would not be an issue.. in fact, you could use both the N belly pump and the red tiger engine pump.

If the red tiger was a naa with pipes, just make up plumbing so suction comes from sump ( pipe plug?), and pressure goes to n pump test port.

If later red tiger with manifold, just make up an blank plate for the pump and plumb similar as above.

Getting the engine glued to the tranny will be the part that takes work. Could keep the naa front bolster and front running gear even

That setup would give you live Hyds anytime engine is running, and double flow + with PTO running.

Would be easy to add remotes to this setup using the engine pump for remotes, and use a pub valve and dump the oil to the n test port, so you still had live 3pt without PTO running, and had remotes. Depending on the red tiger pump used , total flow would be between 5.6 and 6.8 GPM or so, full tilt, of course.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

If you repowered an n with a red tiger, the Hyde would not be an issue.. in fact, you could use both the N belly pump and the red tiger engine pump.

If the red tiger was a naa with pipes, just make up plumbing so suction comes from sump ( pipe plug?), and pressure goes to n pump test port.

If later red tiger with manifold, just make up an blank plate for the pump and plumb similar as above.

Getting the engine glued to the tranny will be the part that takes work. Could keep the naa front bolster and front running gear even

That setup would give you live Hyds anytime engine is running, and double flow + with PTO running.

Would be easy to add remotes to this setup using the engine pump for remotes, and use a pub valve and dump the oil to the n test port, so you still had live 3pt without PTO running, and had remotes. Depending on the red tiger pump used , total flow would be between 5.6 and 6.8 GPM or so, full tilt, of course.

On the hydraulics I have a question. Perhaps you seen my post on yt about the NAA top cover bolting up to the 8n. I know I have to relocate the acorn nut for the backpressure valve to the 8n. JMor seem to think some of the linkage or pump might hit the NAA cylinder. I have open cases on both and I can't see anything that might hit. I haven't pulled the top cover off the NAA yet to see if the top cover holes line up. With temps below zero I haven't done much in the unheated barn and with snow removal every couple days stuff just gets in the way. My thought was since I have the NAA top cover with the NAA divert valve it would be a cleaner look to power up the one arm loader on the 8n. Do you have any thoughs on this set up?

Kirk

 

[Soundguy]

I can think of a ton of better ways to do it.

One, the n pump will use no linkage. You will move the valve to pump constantly, the guts of the unloader will dump unused oil.

Two, relocation that external back pressure may be like reinventing the wheel, unless the castings line up perfectly, and then you will still need custom machine work.

If I was even going to attempt a Frankenstein project like this it would be with a 55 top cover and no external bp valve.

Three, hyd stand pipe has to line up or it a another total wheel build.


I think it would be easier to plug the oil port in the pump by tapping for a pipe plug with inverted head, then do the same for the top cover on the n. This bypasses the stand pipe. Then come out the test port usi g an orb 90 fitting, send oil to a pub valve of your choice, exhaust oil to the top cover by drilling and tapping the top of the top cover over the oil galley you plugged. Thus oil out the pump, RU an open center valve, into top cover, bypass stand pipe.

I have done is on a naa by plugging the base of the option cover and tapping the top of the option cover, valve and hose in between, works the same way, 2 ho.es, 2 tappings, hose and valve for loader.

Lastly, you can just put a chain lop around the axla, and slip it over a lift arm, have a line off the test port with a shutoff valve in it to your lift cyl. When you want to use the loader, open valve, chain lift arm down, use 3pt control to raise and lower loader. That's the 10 minute, 10$ way.

The drill, tap, valve, hose is the 1 hour, 135$ way.

The redesign naa cover is the 2 week, custom machining and unknown $$ way.

If I wanted a project to use my drill and not am chain, if plug the top and bottom cover, then test port it to DRI.end top cover.

Clean and works GOOD. I have seen others do this. I believe I have seen toh mod a n top cover for a port to send oil back in after detour. Anyone with a drill and thread tap can plug the top and bottom cover, drill top cover, toss in 3 hoses, and 2 fittings and a valve. One hose from pump base to valve, another for valve to cover, 3rd from valve the lift cyl on loader.. etc.