"Old world craftsmanship" How NOT to pour footings

[n8wrl]

This is so interesting because my wife and I just finsihed a remodelling project. We sought out and hired the same contractor who did an addition for us 8 years ago. At that time, everyone on the job was employed by him - no subs. Work was incredibly smooth and the project went very well. Excellent work, no surprises.

This time around he hired subs because he couldn't afford to have employees full time. He had trouble keeping them busy, benefits, to pay, etc. etc. The result? MUCH more trouble. Example: a drywall crew who literally pissed in an A/C vent and left tubs of drywall compound with crap in them. Yes, crap.

Other things went awry, and my builder made good on everything, but I could see he was struggling to do so. It is interesting to hear from 'the other side' because from my perspective, I can't seem to hire good tradespeople at any price. They don't return calls. If they do, I make appointments and they don't show up. I get recommendations, and they're gone. If I have a good experience with someone I try to hang onto them and call them for future stuff, but 80% of the time they're gone next time.

Not sure what the answer is, but it sure is frustrating.

-Brian

 

[6sunset6]

yikes somehow I write a reply before I see all the others. I was thinking of old foundations. I agree with the comments about new shoddy work and the penny pinching. It is really painful to see. I was the GC on my own house and every contractor I dealt with said if he were going to build a house they do do it like I was doing it. The major guy was the carpenter who did most of the work. I paid time and material as we went along. I was there every day between 4 and 5 . He got a good deal and so did I . We both learned a lot from each other. Very few changes after the fact. We did change things but we could see them coming.

 

[6sunset6]

crap in drywall buckets is very common. I have no idea why.

 

[Builder]

yikes somehow I write a reply before I see all the others. I was thinking of old foundations. I agree with the comments about new shoddy work and the penny pinching. It is really painful to see. I was the GC on my own house and every contractor I dealt with said if he were going to build a house they do do it like I was doing it. The major guy was the carpenter who did most of the work. I paid time and material as we went along. I was there every day between 4 and 5 . He got a good deal and so did I . We both learned a lot from each other. Very few changes after the fact. We did change things but we could see them coming.

That's why they liked you so much. Anyone who pays time & material but is only there for the last hour of the day would be the ultimate customer.

 

[Builder]

This is so interesting because my wife and I just finsihed a remodelling project. We sought out and hired the same contractor who did an addition for us 8 years ago. At that time, everyone on the job was employed by him - no subs. Work was incredibly smooth and the project went very well. Excellent work, no surprises.

This time around he hired subs because he couldn't afford to have employees full time. He had trouble keeping them busy, benefits, to pay, etc. etc. The result? MUCH more trouble. Example: a drywall crew who literally pissed in an A/C vent and left tubs of drywall compound with crap in them. Yes, crap.

Other things went awry, and my builder made good on everything, but I could see he was struggling to do so. It is interesting to hear from 'the other side' because from my perspective, I can't seem to hire good tradespeople at any price. They don't return calls. If they do, I make appointments and they don't show up. I get recommendations, and they're gone. If I have a good experience with someone I try to hang onto them and call them for future stuff, but 80% of the time they're gone next time.

Not sure what the answer is, but it sure is frustrating.

-Brian

I went through the same problems as your Builder. I couldn't keep my crew because it was costing me too much. I was "working for them" instead of them working for me. It was like my whole life's purpose was to keep them busy. Their unemployment comp, benefits & insurance were bankrupting me. Luckily, I met a lot of good subs along the way, and now I sub a decent amount of work. I still do all my excavation, grading, footings, concrete, rough & finish carpentry, kitchens, baths.

Our gov't has made it nearly impossible to keep employees in construction and very few younger men want to get into construction.

I return ALL calls, always show up on time for appointments and give it my best as much as I can, yet it's the scheisters I compete with that have all the fancy cars, boats & girlfriends on the side living like high rollers because they talk a great game and build crap with corners cut every chance they get.

I don't think most customers are educated enough to know how to hire someone who cares enough to do a good job.

 

[Builder]

crap in drywall buckets is very common. I have no idea why.

Because the Gen Contractor/ builder was too cheap to rent a porta-potty.

 

[mjncad]

So I get to get in on a great project and find the same crews that fight for the cookie cutter ones doing what they know the only way they know of doing it. It makes it tough on occasion.

Unfortunately a lot of people think that $1,000,000 McMansions are built with highly skilled craftsmen. What they don't realize is that underneath the granite counter tops, cherry cabinets, fancy paint, etc is the same basic materials put together by the same cookie cutter crews that slap up $150,000 KB (Kit Built) starter houses.

Of course the exceptions are out there and they are usually designed by architects and engineers who spec out materials and building processes that lean more towards the commercial side of construction.

 

[ScottAR]

This has been my experience as well Mjncad. Last fall, I went to a showcase of homes in the next town which has a more expensive market than where I live.

The lowest price house there was $350k to $500k or thereabouts and I saw details missed that I wouldn't pass on our cheapest rental. Little finish work details but makes me wonder if the bones of the place were as shoddy as the finish work. Brings to mind what a contractor friend told me. "I used to go to some of the showcases, but what I found was all houses are just sticks and bricks." He couldn't have been more right IMO.

I mentally noted the comments folks around were making and not many of the would be customers were catching the same things I was noticing. The general public doesn't know or care about soundness of structure so long as it's "pretty."

The license regs. in my state say one needs four years of verifiable experience to obtain a license. If all one has built is crap, do they really have
experience?

Might sound like I hate contractors but I don't. Just the bad ones being discussed.

 

[BXRICK]

Regarding McMansions, a lot of their price is due to simply square footage. They enclose a lot of it, so they can be priced higher.
In our area (north suburban Boston) land is expensive enough that in order for a builder to pay for the land, he has to build a large house to get enough profit out of it. I have no idea what % profit a builder can get, but n% of a bbigger number is a bigger number.

A small building lot (1-2 acres) goes for around 250K in our town. To pay for that, a builder has to profit at least that much on the house he builds on it. To get that much profit out of a house, the house has to sell for 800K or so (apparently). And to do that, the house has to enclose a lot of square feet, since that's the single biggest determining factor in price (after location).

So, yes, McMansions are built the same way as smaller houses, to the same or lesser quality in general. You're not paying for quality; you're paying for location and size.

 

[Builder]

I see horrendous craftsmanship in the bigger tract homes and luxury townhomes.

Usually the small builder who throws up a home here or there builds a better home since he's a small guy trying to make a name for himself.

I like to think of myself as someone who's not perfect and has made mistakes in the past, but it constantly striving to do the best he can in a tough business.