One cylinder or two?

Ron25 · Feb 1, 2006

Hi all,

I'm new here and find this to be about as helpful a board I've ever seen.

I have bought my first tractor - an Iseki TS1910 and would like to build a FEL. I was wondering why on most of these compacts, there are two cylinder to tilt the bucket. Wouldn't one in the center be enough to dump?

Also, I know it would depend on the fab'ing but about what lenght and stroke are used for the cylinders?

I'll have more questions, but that's my research starting questions. lol

Thanks

Nasty135 · Feb 1, 2006

Hi Ron ,Welcome to TBN... ( Wouldn't one in the center be enough to dump?) 

Kubota BX tractors have just one for curling the bucket so I guess that would be fine... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif So long as you post pics of the project /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

beenthere · Feb 1, 2006

Welcome to the forum. Wish you well fab'ing a FEL and it should be fun. Hope for pics too.
I would suspect that structurally, two is easier being as they are mounted in line on the loader arms. The load is straight away using two, but a single one in the middle would need extra reinforcing on both the loader frame and the bucket.
I suspect an extra cyl is not much more expensive to add compared to the extra steel needed to beef it up for a single cyl.

Another possibility, is the quick-attach on some loaders (my Deere for example) lends itself to dual cylinders much better, IMO. I also think two is much more aesthetic and looks more like the 'big' tractors than a single one. But that is just me. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

jinman · Feb 1, 2006

Ron, on CUTs, the buckets are pretty lightweight to give the most FEL lift. When you put on two cylinders with two mounting pads for curl, you can also make that the same mounting pad as the lift arms attach to. If you attach a cylinder to the middle, you have to make the bucket very strong there so it will not bend and you still have to mount a pad on each side for the lift arms. Large construction loaders are made with a single cylinder and also very lightweight loaders, but for our intermediate sized loaders lifting 1/2 to 1 ton, I just think two cylinders is more weight efficient and stronger overall.

...just my guess. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Soundguy · Feb 1, 2006

How aout just one lift cyl, and one curl cyl.

Soundguy

RonMar · Feb 1, 2006

My loader only uses a single dump cylinder and is more than adequate for anything the bucket can lift. It was made by Coldwater tractors in Hoquiam WA. http://coldwatertractors.com/

Depending on how the bucket is designed, it dosn't really require any additional re-enforcement. The top of the bucket I have is made from a piece of box tube. This distributes the forces from the center cylinder across the width of the bucket. There is typically a cross tube beteen the loader arms somewhere up from the bucket. That is where the center cylinder would need to run from anyway so again no real additional structure required, just perhaps a heavier walled component is used. The 3rd cylinder will require an additional attachment point on the bucket. In the case of mine it is two pieces of angle welded vertically on the back of the bucket with a 1" pin hole between the pieces. The attachpoint for the cylinder on the bucket is down in the middle of the back though so the vertical pieces of angle tie the top cross box tube to the bottom plate of the bucket to resist bending. On the dual cylinder buckets, all they need is an additional set of holes on the end brackets for the cylinders to attach to. In my mind this would not be as big of an advantage in fabrication as compared to not having to procure, fit and finish the additional plumbing, hose, fittings and cylinder that a 4 cylinder loader uses.

A single dump cylinder also lends itself easilly to other projects such as a trencher arm(mini back hoe on the front) like the picture I have attached. I have cooked up a design in the CAD program that I may build this summer and a center cylinder is perfect for making this a fairly simple addon project that dosn't require a whole backplate structure.

Good luck with your project and show us some pics as it is going together /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

fishman · Feb 1, 2006

You have made some very interesting points I wouldn't have considered. The mini-hoe is cool!

Soundguy · Feb 1, 2006

( My loader only uses a single dump cylinder and is more than adequate for anything the bucket can lift. ...Depending on how the bucket is designed, it dosn't really require any additional re-enforcement )

I agree. in my example.. the DA curl cyl is atached to a linkage arm that runs a double scisor.. one on either side of the bucket.. just like if you had 2 cyls.. etc. It's all in the design.

Soundguy

Soundguy · Feb 1, 2006

Here is the pic of the bucket.. has an attach point on each side just as if it had 2 cyls.. except that it is only using 1, and some clever linkage.. which is great as the hydro pump is only 4gpm.. and the more fluid you have for the lift cyl.. the better.. Curl cyl is decently small. and reacts pretty fast considdering..

Soundguy

JJPWAus · Feb 2, 2006

Ron,
Welcome to TBN. I recently built a loader for my TS1910, you can check out some photos here Loader
I used two dump cylinders on mine 2" x 16" stroke.
Be glad to assist you if I can, it was a very rewarding project to build and you end up with a very useful tool. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif