Opinion between two tractors

[Farmwithjunk]

Wisc,
A couple of large benefits of MFWD that I see in my own usage are:
1) For a machine that will do X amount of work, the MFWD version will be more easily trailerable. It'll typically be smaller and lighter than the "work equivalent" 2WD tractor. If you need to routinely use your tractor in widely seperated locations, this can be an issue.

2) If you work alone on or near land that can be soft/muddy, MFWD can keep you productive. On soft ground, I work in 2WD until I get stuck (or close to it) and then use 4WD to get out of there. If you have another tractor and a helper available to do the rescue, then they can bail you out and you don't see much value from 4WD. If not, you can lose a whole day trying to get unstuck.

3) The greater FEL effectiveness of MFWD tractors, which almost everyone agrees on. It's no accident that the loader buckets, used on big 2WD Ag tractors from 30 years ago, now look almost ridiculously small (compared to the tractor).

If you will only have one tractor, MFWD makes a lot of sense, especially if loader work is expected. A 2WD makes a very cost effective second tractor. A big one is an excellent source of cheap HP if you have to run a baler or a big brush hog. A small one is fine for pulling wagons, raking hay, seeding, or chore duties. This from the point of view of a small hobby farm user.

I'm more than aware of the role 2WD tractors have played in American agriculture. They were and are up to the task. I've operated Ag tractors since 1960 and never used a MFWD until 2002. There's no question, the big 2WD beasts will do it but, if size is a problem, MFWD can be the solution.

As to resale, I think FWJ has a better handle than anyone else here. Still, a 2WD market where 40 to 50 years worth of used tractors are readily available would tend to keep used 2WD prices somewhat suppressed compared to a 4WD market where used tractors from only the past 10 to 20 years are available...with 4WD CUTS available for even less time than that.
FWIW
Bob

Let me comment just a bit to your reply. I don't deny the advantages of 4wd in certain situations. But again, that wasn't the question asked by the original poster. It's about return on investment.

I'm not completely convinced that the typical TBN member is always a typical tractor owner. There are FAR more folks out there that don't have the resources, or the need for a relatively new, expensive, and option-loaded late model tractor. Just a guess on my part, but I'll go out on a limb and speculate there are 10 (or more) 2wds on the job for every 4wd. In a large majority of those cases, 2wd is all that's needed. I'm quite sure I've spent more hours in an operators seat than the majority of tractor owners over the years. (As an example, I've already logged over 140 hours since March 15th of this year. That's probably more than the average owner uses their tractor in an entire year) Only in a few very isolated occasions have I needed more than a 2wd. 4wd is nice when you truely NEED it, but it's very easy to function without it. BTDT.

The loaders on older tractors, and the "size of the bucket" had more to do with capacity of hydraulics available on older tractors as well as the quality and capacity of the loaders themselves. Todays 2wds are available with the very same loaders as the 4wds.

On trailering. In many cases, mine as an example, the determining factor in the size tractor I need is based primarily on pto hp. A 50 hp 4wd is heavier than a 50 hp 2wd generally speaking. In that regard, a 4wd isn't any easier to haul or load, arguably HARDER to transport, albiet a small difference.

I see everyone looking for "A vs. B" absolutes. There AREN'T any absolutes. There is no pat answer. What suits the needs of "Joe" might not work well at all for "Sam".

 

[Bob_Young]

I understand where you're coming from, Junk. If you need 50 PTO HP for your work, the 2WD with that rating will definitely be lighter than a similarly rated 4WD. If you define "work equivalent" strictly on the basis of same HP, then yes, the 4WD is not an advantage.

However, to capably pull a 6 ft. box blade, a 4WD tractor would most likely be smaller, lighter and have less HP than a 2WD capable of pulling the same implement. The work intended determines what is meant by "work equivalent". So I guess this depends on what Wisc is planning to do and whether he intends to trailer. I know my L4300 + implement is much easier to trailer than my Ford 4000 + implement.

Probably, in Wisc's case, the MX5000 2WD would easily handle a bigger bush hog than the L3400 while being at least it's equal on ground engagement....so the extra $500 would be well spent.

If I'm not mistaken, Wisc also asked whether there were any other major reasons to consider 4WD over 2WD. I didn't think his question solely related to return on investment and/or resale value.
Bob

 

[Bob_Young]

A question or three for Wisc: Where are you located? Wisconsin? If so, you get snow, right? Are you going to want to use the tractor in the winter?

Wintertime here in NY, my 4WD Kubotas keep right on truckin' with snow up to the axles. The 2WDs all hibernate. Rousing them from their wintertime slumber is more trouble than it's worth.
Bob

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I understand where you're coming from, Junk. If you need 50 PTO HP for your work, the 2WD with that rating will definitely be lighter than a similarly rated 4WD. If you define "work equivalent" strictly on the basis of same HP, then yes, the 4WD is not an advantage.

However, to capably pull a 6 ft. box blade, a 4WD tractor would most likely be smaller, lighter and have less HP than a 2WD capable of pulling the same implement. The work intended determines what is meant by "work equivalent". So I guess this depends on what Wisc is planning to do and whether he intends to trailer. I know my L4300 + implement is much easier to trailer than my Ford 4000 + implement.

Probably, in Wisc's case, the MX5000 2WD would easily handle a bigger bush hog than the L3400 while being at least it's equal on ground engagement....so the extra $500 would be well spent.

If I'm not mistaken, Wisc also asked whether there were any other major reasons to consider 4WD over 2WD. I didn't think his question solely related to return on investment and/or resale value.
Bob

The first part of your reply only reinforces my opinion. There isn't a standard answer.

As far as Wisc's "other" questions, yes he did ask about advantages, however I've been addressing only the "best return" question. I do believe the issue of advantages of a 4wd are fairly common knowledge. Other than price, I see no real obvious disadvantage. But that disadvantage is a giant roadblock for some who seem to believe they HAVE to have 4wd. And I have made my position clear from the get-go that there are certain situations where 4wd is a better fit. But again, that varies from user to user. No across the board answer. I like to keep all my options open.

And I'll stand by my opinion that a great many 4wd buyers don't need it nearly as much as they'd like to believe. But then again, if a person can afford it and they want it, why not buy it. It's just not ALWAYS the "blue chip investment" some would believe.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I was raised on the family farm. We had around 50 cows within two herds. I am 47 years old. The first 4WD tractor we've ever owned was purchased by me last year. We used a Super A's, H's, and M Farmalls, WD 45's, and D-17's. We used them for haying and got along just fine. Around here the bigger farmers still use their older 2WD tractors for haying and the such, but some do tend to upgrade to 4WD with a newer unit.

I tend to agree with FarmwithJunk. You can do a lot of work with a 2WD unit. We now have the luxury of 4WD which in actuality is just 4 wheel assist. I mow 90% of my hilly acerage in 2WD. I use the 4 wheel assist on a very steep bank.

I will say that in the smaller units the 4WD's are easier to sell than a 2WD unit. Most folks want them with loaders and 4WD offers some advantages in pushing into dirt and the such. I don't know what the percnetage of resale is on 2WD versus 4WD units but I got $2500 out of my 1975 1700 Yanmar in on trade. I originally purchased that tractor in 1992 for $3900 so I guess you could calculate a 35% depreciation on that unit in 15 years or so, and that's not calculating the depreciating purchasing power of the dollar.

All tractors depreciate. Operational hours and condition are more relevant as to the percentage of resell value of a unit more so than if the trractor is 2 WD versus 4WD. But, I do tend to think that most folk now want 4WD and makes them easier to move, eventhough in many instances 2WD would suffice.

 

[Offy]

I'm not completely convinced that the typical TBN member is always a typical tractor owner.

I would say unequivocally that most of us are not typical farmers. The majority of the forums and topics are for the smaller CUT tractor that the "amature" land owner buys. Those that farm for a living don't have time to fritter away at a computer , they have "real work" to do. The majority of posters that I see here are using the tractor more as a hobby to work on the land consisting of less than 40 acres that they generally live on or intend to. Most are office types or at least work mainly indoors with computer access. If I had a barn full of tractors and equipment to work full time on my 100+ acres I'd chuckle at the notion of talking about my tractors on some magic electronic machine.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I would say unequivocally that most of us are not typical farmers. The majority of the forums and topics are for the smaller CUT tractor that the "amature" land owner buys. Those that farm for a living don't have time to fritter away at a computer , they have "real work" to do. The majority of posters that I see here are using the tractor more as a hobby to work on the land consisting of less than 40 acres that they generally live on or intend to. Most are office types or at least work mainly indoors with computer access. If I had a barn full of tractors and equipment to work full time on my 100+ acres I'd chuckle at the notion of talking about my tractors on some magic electronic machine.

Well, I'd say you need to start chuckling away, 'cause we have a few full-time farmers as regulars on here. Even the busiest of farmers spend time on the internet these days. A few of our regulars farm substancially more than the 100 acres you mentioned.

And if you've ever spent time around farmers, you might have a really hard time defining "typical farmer". Not sure there is such a thing as typical with that crowd.

 

[Toiyabe]

Interesting thread.

With my truck, I figured that with 2WD I'll need to chain up about 5 times a year. 4WD is ~ $4000 option. Figure the truck lasts 10 years, and I'd be paying $80 for each chainup I avoid. My time isn't worth that much.

When I bought my tractor, I thought 4WD for a CUT with FEL was a no-brainer. But now I wish I thought about it a litttle more.

 

[BTI]

All depends on the area and size of the tractor.
Around here whether it be the "correct" way to think or not....you have a hard time selling a 2wd.

BTW hydro's suck <WEG>


BTI

 

[wolc123]

If a good percentage of your usage is on a disk as indicated by your original post, then your choice should be a very easy one between the 34hp 4wd and the 50hp 2wd. The two tractors will be approximately equal in their ability pulling a disk, but the 4wd will consume about 25% less fuel doing so (this is because of the power that is wasted pushing a "dead" axle thru the soft ground with the 2wd). Fuel is not cheap now and will likely get much more expensive over the life of your tractor. As far as resale goes, the higher fuel prices get, the less a 2wd tractor will hold its value relative to a 4wd. Many people on this forum have a lot of difficulty grasping the fact that a 4wd tractor uses less fuel in most conditions than a 2wd. This is because they are typically a lot more familiar with automobiles that operate on roads, where the hard pavement can not absorb energy like soft ground can.