Opinion: Large land owner's vote carry more weight than small land owner?

[Country Geek]

I'm pretty sure they can register as residents and vote. I think you just need a utility bill showing your address to register as a resident and vote.

As far back as the 1980s when I was in college, courts were ruling that college students can't be prevented from registering to vote if they can show residency in their college town.

 

[CobyRupert]

Those that say non-landowners shouldn't vote; How would that work? Just one vote from the property or all that are listed on the deed? . Can only the "head of household" vote? Would the wife get to vote?

Taxation without representation - Sort of a big deal. Back a while ago, some people in this country got upset about that.

People who don't own land pay taxes (income tax, sales tax, and registration & "user fees", etc...). Maybe some are saying that each town, city, etc.. need 2 separate government bodies? One that only has authority to spend money from property taxes, the other that can only spend sales tax, etc? That would get complicated.

 

[meos1]

I travel for my living. When I work in for example NJ, I have to pay state tax in NJ as well as SC, where I live. I don't get to vote in NJ so is that taxation without representation?

 

[zing]

I recently had a similar discussion with some folks. I live in a town with two colleges. Most of the students aren't property owners, nor are they full-time year round residents. Some argued that the students don't have the same "skin in the game" that landowners and permanent residents do, so the conversation was pretty lively. Things became fairly heated about a year ago when there was a vote to prevent hydraulic fracturing in the City of Denton (first city in the nation to pass such a ban). The "no fracking" ban was mainly pushed by student groups, whereas most landowners didn't want a ban. We've had another recent issue with controversy over a civil war memorial on the town square. Student groups are petitioning to have it removed.

I can see both sides of the argument. As a landowner and property tax payer, some of the laws disproportionately affect us. At the same time, I don't believe in a "poll-tax" either. I don't know what the answer is, but you can see potential problems from any direction. I guess any system is imperfect and all you can do is try to find a reasonable balance.

They may not be long term residents for the most part, but the economic impact they have on the township can't be ignored. In all of the small university towns around here there is significantly more money then the same size town 10 clicks up the road. These students pay for food and booze, rent and clothes, drug stores and some drugs not from stores . When people and businesses make money off of those students, some of that money gets put back into the town coffers. Why shouldn't the students have a say in local politics? They contribute to the local economy, even if it is in different ways from the permanent residents.

 

[zing]

We're having an interesting debate in our township. I don't want to discuss the specifics of the topic, but I'm hearing from large acreage land owners who say that because they pay more in taxes and allegedly have more invested in the township than someone who, say, owns a house on 1 acre -- that the large land owners desires should be given more weight than the opinion of someone who doesn't own a lot of land.

I would really love to hear your opinion on this. And I would love to hear your reasoning behind your opinion.

The "large acreage" formula is flawed, so I don't see how that could work. My 1/2 acre lot in the city is worth 3 times what my 45 acres in the country is worth and the property taxes reflect that. What about a farmer who requires 100 acres of wheat to produce the same income as a farmer with 5 acres of organic apples? That is just an example, I have no idea how much income comes from those two farms in real life. What about costs to the township which spends far more money per property maintaining the roads around a hundred acre farm than it would for the road in front of a postage stamp size lot in the city. Or the cost of fire support for one house in the city versus a farm with 10 different barns and outbuildings. Cost of policing for a police a car to patrol/respond to an issue on a street with 1000 people per mile versus a road with one house per mile? Does a farmer with one hundred acres pay more taxes than a gas station or store owner with a 1/2 acre property?

I don't know the actual numerical answers to any of those questions, nor would I expect you to. I just don't see how a formula as simple as "more acres equals more votes" could possibly be a true reflection of fairness to all people in town.

 

[meos1]

Tourist fall under the same categorization with an albeit lower contribution margin than students. Do they get to vote? I used to live in Columbia, SC.....The home of USC.

While they may register to vote because they can demonstrate residence, they would more often than not fail to register their car in SC and therefore pay the taxes and insurance(Its high compared to the national average). Sounds like choosing the place where you want to pay taxes.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

There are as many different schemes for taxation as there are people to think them up. You can tax people on what they earn (IRS), you can tax them on what they make, you can tax them on what they own (property taxes), you can tax them for just existing (Obamacare). Every single one of them has this in common: take value from the tax payer to give to the government. If the government limits spending on things that everyone needs, then taxation is low and dedicated to those needs. If the government spends according to wants, then taxation is high, and dedicated to those who complain the loudest, whine the most, or are in it manipulating the system for their own enrichment. It's very easy to see what kind of government we have in the U.S. at federal, state, and local level; and it darn sure isn't the first kind.

 

[gsganzer]

They may not be long term residents for the most part, but the economic impact they have on the township can't be ignored. In all of the small university towns around here there is significantly more money then the same size town 10 clicks up the road. These students pay for food and booze, rent and clothes, drug stores and some drugs not from stores . When people and businesses make money off of those students, some of that money gets put back into the town coffers. Why shouldn't the students have a say in local politics? They contribute to the local economy, even if it is in different ways from the permanent residents.

I don't disagree with you, but it seems like the students are actually "temporary residents" that typically move on after a few years. They vote on a fracking ban, but yet probably 99% of them won't even be around when it takes full effect. I'm not arguing right or wrong, it just seems like a transient voting group gets to vote on permanent laws that continue to impact the landowners after they've left. Besides, most of the students dress weird, wear sandals, the men carry purses, they smell bad, they don't eat meat and they don't vote the same as me. :laughing:

 

[zing]

I don't disagree with you, but it seems like the students are actually "temporary residents" that typically move on after a few years. They vote on a fracking ban, but yet probably 99% of them won't even be around when it takes full effect. I'm not arguing right or wrong, it just seems like a transient voting group gets to vote on permanent laws that continue to impact the landowners after they've left. Besides, most of the students dress weird, wear sandals, the men carry purses, they smell bad, they don't eat meat and they don't vote the same as me. :laughing:

All good points, and valid. Who knows, maybe they saved you from a situation where 15 years from now you would have been able to light your tap water on fire? Of course, maybe they took away your opportunity to pad your retirement nest egg. Tough to know anything for sure. :confused2:

I will say though, that I am fine with the guys carrying purses, as long as the girls continue to wear short shorts. :thumbsup:

 

[ovrszd]

In Missouri the farmer rarely, if ever gets to add incidental costs to his selling price.

My very large farmer friend says he pays 40 cents on every dollar of income to taxes.