Opinion needed from an excavator operator or other

[new jersey mike]

I have an old house foundation built from field stone and fill. There was a fire a number of years ago so some debris still exists but I let some scrappers remove all the metal.

I have gotten numerous quote ranging from 1500.00 to just push in and cover with dirt to 4000.00 to do a clean removal and then fill. I don't want what I call a grave site because I want to build a garage on the site.

I have spoken to equipment rental companies to and I can rent an excavator for a week at 1500.00 with delivery. I thought I could do the work my self save the stone for some other project and then use the excavator for some culverts I need to repair and install.

I am questioning that the excavator is the proper tool for the job. I know I will have a learning curve but it will be fun, so I look forward to that.

I was going to rent one with a thumb attachment to aid in the process.

Here are some pics of the small foundation one side basement and the other a crawl space. I would like to hear any opinion to approach and equipment selection.

Thank you.

 

[jinman]

I think an excavator with a thumb would be ideal for reaching in and picking that mess out of the center of the stone. If you also had a dump trailer, it would be ideal to fill as the junk is pulled out. It looks like lots of scrap metal that can be resold if hauled to a scrapper. Also, I see some partially burned wood that could be burned or buried. The wood will decompose, so there's no issue with that. If you are careful, you may be able to get that old fireplace chimney out in big chunks.

In my opinion, trying to handle the stone with the excavator is just going to make a mess. You'll knock over the stone walls and have it spread all over the ground. There'll be no way to harvest it without getting a lot of dirt mixed in. The easiest way to harvest that stone would be to hand load the excavator bucket and then empty the full bucket onto a trailer for transport. If you plan to reuse at nearly the same site, I'd make a pad to stack the stone and use a trailer, tractor loader bucket, or the excavator to move the stone to that location. I just think that stone will be easiest to harvest by hand into a loader bucket or trailer. If you could stack it on pallets and then wrap it with chicken wire to stabilize the load, you could then lift and move the pallets with ease. Trying to do this with the excavator alone will only result in a mess.

 

[Red Horse]

Mike,

Excavators are very versatile machines-in the hands of an experienced operator. If you want to dig a hole- not much skill required. I think if You can find one, I would rent a track loader.-(Dozer with a loader instead of a blade)
And if you can get one with a 4 in one bucket, all the better.

If you had that, you could dig a ramp in from the lowest side, lift the wall out, then go in and load out the crap-keep in mind steel is worth money-white goods-old washing machines, stoves etc at my local yard are worth over 30 bucks right now- so you do a good job of separating the steel. Brick is crap, but if you are not going to build on it, you could loose it on some other part of your property.

As for the stone- that looks like some nice stuff-worth saving. But if you don't want to do that, after you pull the garbage out of the hole, if you collapse the walls back into the hole, pull dirt with it as you go to fill the voids. then make sure you are spreading as you go. by the time you have the walls all pulled in, you should have plenty of space on top for good solid gravel fill.

I'm assuming you are building in the same footprint so for sure, you don't want any wood and minimal brick in the hole, and if you pull the foundation stone in, just make sure you are "chinking"with dirt as you go so you don't have any settlement. Also would help to run the machine around as you go to aid in compaction.

Also, if your town has a building inspector, be sensitive to what this guy might say if you are building over the same footprint. Agasin the key to that is having no material that will decompose and settle over time.

Good luck-by the way-looks like a bea:thumbsup:utiful site!

 

[Red Horse]

By the way Mike- I should have added-if you can't get track loader, an excavator will work as well- just pull the crap out first, then if you want to save the stone, get your machine as far back from the hole as you can so have the dipper stick 90 degrees to the boom and you are getting under the wall and lift straight up with the boom. And if you loose some stone in the hole? No big deal, just make sure as stated you have dirt with it so you don't have voids that can ultimately settle.

 

[Dutch445]

all good suggestions

any chance that oil tank has leaked?

 

[20 20]

I own an excavator and that would be a dream job, very straight forward. Excavators make excellent garbage pickers/demolition machines. I would also agree with Jinman about hand work for the field stone. Oh and yes a thumb can make a big difference.

PS. do you know if there was any type of cellar underneath all the rubble? Just saying becarefull I've seen machinery fall through "solid ground" because of what they thought was nonexistent.

 

[new jersey mike]

Thanks for the input,
I do not know if the oil tank leaked. I know when the house burned the tank was reading empty. The the local fire company did a complete burn, so I do not know what stayed in the tank, burnt off or evaporated.

I believe it is considered an above ground unit because it was in the basement and I may just be able to pull it out after checking the inside.

All the metal was taken I was not going to be able to scrap it easily myself so called some local guys and they did the dirty work. I will get a dumpster for the items I can not burn.

As I think about the excavator and it's ability to pick out or remove the stone with out knocking it inward is what has be thinking it may not be the proper tool.

I do have my tractor with loader and QA bucket along with my grapple and box blade. I have thought to just move up to the outside edge of the wall and physically push it into the bucket. I have a box blade so if this proves to be efficient I will then just cut away at the soil to expose more and more stone. Rent either a dumping trailer or hire a local guy to help who also has a small dump truck.

I know I have to be very careful if I try removing the inside debris and not damage the loader. I think if I use the grapple and carefully pick out the garbage , timbers and the rest that may work also. The crawl space section on the right side will be an issue so I do not know that I can perform all of the work with out using an excavator.

My goals last year were to open up my fields and that went wonderfully. But now it's time to focus on foundation clean up and building. We are actually going to build the barn first for tractor and equipment storage. My neighbor is letting me use his barn but I'm not cleaning the tractor properly and that's more important to me then a bed. My local super-8 only charges me 50/night so that works for now.

Here are some more pics

 

[powerpace]

In my part of the country people would be lined up asking to remove the stone for you. You might advertise and see if there is a demand. I would offer to sell it first. If no response then give it away. Make sure the area would be safe first.

 

[forgeblast]

Get a few pallets and stack some stone on it, Stack stone/field stone at retail is going about $250 a pallet. If you are selling it to a stone yard you will be looking at around 50-75 a pallet. Or check around for "stone stackers" some will come and tear it down and pay you for the stone.

 

[MadJack]

Forageblast is correct. Stone Masons and fireplace specialists will PAY YOU to come remove that beautiful stone. Here in Maine one could expect to pay upwards of $400 per pallet stacked only 16" to 20" high! I wish that place was closer to me, I'd gladly pay you $1500 for the stone 'where it is'!
It would be easier to remove the stone by digging a walk-in area at least ten feet wide (with tapered sides) then loading the tractor bucket by hand.
You may be able to trade the stone for the culvert work you need done but be sure the work you want is done before the stone moves!

If a garage or barn is to be built directly over this site, you'll want to compact every 12" layer of fill that goes into the hole.
Whatever you do, best of luck!

 

[MarkV]

What I would add is to find out where the septic tank is before moving in with heavy equipment and realize you are going to need a good amount of WELL compacted fill to build on the same site. If at all possible I would try to build where you have undisturbed ground.

Good luck
MarkV

 

[Richard]

I would also agree with Jinman about hand work for the field stone.

I would agree with the agreement....

When we added onto our house, the builder was going to take care of the flagstone I had already installed. Wife said "OK".

I said NO WAY. Told them to not touch it as I knew they'd simply pull the backhoe out and either bulldoze it around or use the hoe end to claw, scrape and other wise, push it around.

I wanted it "removed" not manhandled. If that is what I wanted....then I had to be willing to do the work.

I pulled the entire sidewalk up and even went further, scraping up most of the underlying sand base that was under it (and spread it on the gravel drive)

I restacked all the flagstone in a flat area and when the builder was done, bought some more of it, pulled it down from storage and rebuilt my sidewalk. I was able to reuse basically 100% of what I origianlly had (absent finding other pieces of new stuff that worked better)

There is zero doubt in my mind that had I let the builder do it, most would have simply been buried with the old septic tank and not reusable. (or smashed)

My back is still killing me....

 

[scott_vt]

Good Morning New Jersey Mike,
Just a side note on that old oil tank.

The tank needs to be cut in half, probablly length wise. Then using speedy dry, needs to be cleaned, absorbing the sludge, disposed of properly. Then you can take it to metal recycler... All junk yards in Ct are required to have that done before it can be accepted as scrap ! Im sure similar rules in neighboring states !

 

[Brushhill dave]

12" is too much of a lift at one time. 3-4" lifts are the max I would go then compact

 

[mattridessleds]

I had a similar situation at my place. Old farm house and an addition that I demoed. Stone foundation plus some pretty hefty pieces of cement from the slab from the addition. I had quotes up to 7k to do exactly what I did with a 1700 dollar rental machine. Took me 30mins to figure out the controls and get good enough with it to pick up and dig out all the rock etc.. I just used the rock as fill on one of my hills though and didn't truck it out of there. Same plan hoping to put a garage up in the same spot in a couple of years. Took me a day to get rid of the foundation and for the rest of the week I dug a pond and did some other jobs around the house. Wish I had one all the time. If it were me I would rent the machine.
-Matt

 

[shortthrow50]

I do this for a living and work for a builder and do all his tear downs and site improvements. 1500.00 a week will get you a very small excavator. Doesnt seem like you need a 30 yard dumpster. Maybe a 20 yarder becuase there doesnt look like much garbage. You cant go putting any stone in the dumpster becuase you will get charged a boat load for over tonnage. If it was a demo i get sent to do, I could probably get away with charging 2 grand. 1000 bucks for a sizeable excavator for one day. I would just get a bucket without grapple to save on cost. Your gonna need at least a cat 318 like in my video below to get that foundation dug out and stock piled or buried. One day job for me it looks like. Bucket would be fine to sift through that and dig out the gargbe to put in dumpster. Any other machine other than i mentioned is gonna either take you all week or gonna give you ****. Thats just a quick take from your pictures. I like to look at my jobs in person.

Heres one of my jobs. The guy in the video is not me, its my brother who was lookin for work and is his first demo job so i let him get some seat time. This tear down took two days and about 7- 30 yard dumpsters. House was fully furnished
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpkKXhbfAdg&list=UUSSFUkguBXBANxXL8YRZx1g&index=44&feature=plcp]andover demo - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Depmandog]

I agree with the others, the stone is worth the time and effort to pallet and resell / or use on a future project.

An excavator with thumb would be my preferred machine. Grab what you can from up top, pick a spot and excavate a ramp down, then finish moving debris from the bottom setting it up top.

Two dumpsters, a trash and a metal dumpster. You might not have enough metal to get paid for the scrap...but you probably will have enough to get it hauled away free. Have the dumpsters there and direct load as much as you can to keep from handling the debris twice.

After you get all of the debris out, put a pallet on forks (if you have them) and drive down in the hole with your tractor. Put the pallet up to the rock wall -close to the top, and start stacking rock.

Not sure how much weight you can lift, but you can do the math and figure how many pallets you will need for the rock. My guess even if you have a helper, this is going to take a few days.

Not sure of your plans for the excavator after the rock removal? If you planned on using it to backfill, the rock salvage operation will interfere and likely push you past your one week rental. If so, once you have cleaned up on the inside, you could use the excavator bucket to tip the rock into the hole, the use your bucket on the tractor to scoop and remove. Haul to the topside and dump.

This will make it harder to palletize, but you can always do a little at a time on your schedule.