Opinion on broken Kubota; who should pay???

uberusa · May 24, 2005

Hi All,
I will try to keep this short and would value your opinions on the subject. I was planning to dig a patio in my back yard and my friend who is a contractor offered me use of his Kubota. My buddy dropped the machine off and in the process of explaining the machine admitted to me that he is very lax in regards to service and said we should grease all the fittings because he had not for approx. 1 year, which we did except for the ones that were clogged. All was going well and the hole was dug, on the last day I was clearing up a couple of things and noticed that the hoe was hanging down lower than usual, upon further inspection I saw that on the triangular piece that controls left to right movement of the arm (please let me know what this is called) the top pin was gone and the arm was hanging on by the bottom pin, the traveler pin, and the cracked joint of the cast triangular piece. The left/right hydraulics were intact but the pivot point was in bad shape. So, any advise on repair if this piece can be welded or needs to be replaced? I offered to pay for the repair but do not feel that I should foot the entire bill since I am sure the general wear and tear on an 8 year old machine contributed to the damage. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
Kevin

KiotiJohn · May 24, 2005

Without seeing the subject, it's hard to say how much of that wear and tear contributed, but my rule is that if I borrow something, and it breaks while I'm using it, I pay with few exceptions. In the case of the owner not keeping proper fluids, etc. there would be some room for argument in my mind, but not occasionally checking over the backhoe while working is asking for trouble, and is the operator's responsibility.
I think you're talking about the swing boom, or swing plate. Most anything on the backhoe can be welded, including the cylinders, with care not to overheat them and ruin the seals.
I good welder should be able to repair it for not too many dollars.
This is just my opinion, and also why I nearly never borrow anything any more.
John

Bob_Skurka · May 24, 2005

I'm not quite sure that I understand exactly what went wrong, but I think you should pay. My experience with hydraulics is that if one little cotter pin breaks loose then that little $0.75 part can lead to a pivot pin falling loose and that can lead to all sorts of damage in a great big hurry. I'm not discounting the wear and tear, and it may have been extreme, but it is likely that something small broke and then the power of the hydraulics did the damage.

SteveInMD · May 24, 2005

Unless I missed something it sounds like a few new pins and some minor welding will fix it. I'd probably just pay the bill because I would think it would be less than the rental bill would have been. If it's not a cheap fix maybe he'll split the bill with you (if you think there was previous damage). I'd think twice next time he offers you equipment.

LarryD · May 24, 2005

It's a shame the damage surfaced while you were using the tractor but I think you're in a difficult spot. The easiest thing to do would be get the thing repaired and return it, hopefully it can be welded and the cost would be minimal. Your friend did save you a few $$ by letting you borrow it. At least see what it's going to cost.

I've loaned my tiller out on occasion with the full understanding that it be returned in the same working order. I've hit some pretty good sized rocks so it's quite possible one or two tines may have some defects that are not visible. The unit is clean and we both go over it but that's the deal if you want to borrow my tiller. If it breaks in your possesion, you fix it. There are a couple equipment rental places in town if that deal is not acceptable.

frank_f15 · May 24, 2005

I will agree with the others, see what it will cost to Repair and just pay for it.What would a Rental have cost you for the same time that you had use of it?

PineRidge · May 24, 2005

Used to borrow a 40 year old Massey from a neighbor when I needed to use a BH or a loader before I owned a tractor. This thing was in such a poor state of repair that every-time I used it something always seemed to break. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Yes I always footed the entire bill to make it right again, until I finally said enough and purchased a rig of my own. We tend to take better care of our own equipment as we want it to be around for a lot of years to come.

Henro · May 24, 2005

Seems around these parts it is kind of an unwrittten rule that if you borrow something and it breaks you fix it.

Your friend might offer to split the repair costs...but if he doesn't...well...he was kind enough to lend it too you. And he probably would not have come back to you asking for help with the repair if it had failed the day after you returned it to him (that is pure speculation of course).

I might not like it but I would pay for the repairs, and would not ask or expect him to pay anything. I would gladly let him pay some or the repair cost if he offered though. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Egon · May 24, 2005

I go along with the oyher fellows thoughts.

My neighbour has offered to lend me equipment but so far I've always turned it down cause if I break it I gotta fix it.

Egon

thcri · May 24, 2005

I guess I would call the guy you borrowed the rig from and ask him who does his work for him. Explain to him what happened and you want to get it fixed since it failed while you were using it. The guy just might come out and say hey that should not have happened or he might say let's split it. This way he is aware of it, might help you out and will let you borrow stuff in the future. As far as borrowing in the future if this guy doesn't maintain stuff you may not want to borrow from him again but you do need to get the one you did borrow fixed. And yes, in my opinion you are responsible.

murph

SteveInMD · May 24, 2005

If a neighbor wants help from one of my machines I try to operate it myself for exactly this reason.

Dargo · May 24, 2005

Yeah, bummer, I have to go along with the crowd. I have a neighbor who I think used to try to get me to borrow his equipment so I would fix it. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The problem was in my case, the stuff came to me broken and the deal was that I had to fix it to use it. Since all of his stuff is in such ill repair, I just won't borrow from him at all anymore (last 10 years).

rcrcomputing · May 24, 2005

( If a neighbor wants help from one of my machines I try to operate it myself for exactly this reason. )

I go.. where my stuff goes...

BTW, if you borrowed it, you fix it.

kenmac · May 24, 2005

I have to agree, you should pay to have repairs made.I use to borrow my dad's old to20, he has never mantained anything,but things always work for him. Every time that I borrowed that tractor something would break.I always paid for repairs, thats why his 40 something year old tractor is like new .I have my own tractor now.

stevenf · May 25, 2005

Kevin, I can't believe you have gotten a concensus on this question its like they all live in Texas and absolutely if you borrowed it you fix it. This is the unwritten rule around here as well. Also even though you may not borrow anything else from this person I'd say the way it works around here if you do something to a borrowed tool and don't fix it you'll never borrow anything again and half the town will know about it by morning God I love living in a small town if I break wind neighbors miles away will know it before morning.
Steve

frank_f15 · May 25, 2005

( God I love living in a small town if I break wind neighbors miles away will know it before morning.
Steve
)
Thats because you texans do every thing in a BIG way /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Varmintmist · May 26, 2005

The bill is yours.

As it is he is already into this deal for the cost of dropping off the machine and now the downtime will cost him because you broke it.

Would it have broke on the job with him running it? Maybe, but the hoe came to you in assumed working condition and was in working condition up until the last day you used it. He wasnt running it, you were.

If it was mine and you were my "friend" and you tried to stick me with a bill after breaking my machine, we would no longer be friends and you would be getting a bill for hoe rental, delivery, and fuel. You can bet that it would be at least as much if not more than the repair.

Machines break, even if it was through no misuse. I bartered a york rake for my yard. Even though goods and services were exchanged, when I broke a tine, the first thing I did was call the owner and ask him how much was a new tine going to cost me?

getut · May 26, 2005

I borrowed a 3ph tiller from a co-worker. The PTO shaft was cut fine for his tractor and there was only about 1" difference between his and mine. The shaft itself was cut to where it could handle the 1" difference just fine. I forgot to check the PTO shield. When I lifted the tiller up the first time, the PTO shield seperated and when I lowered it, it boogered the ends all up.

I payed like $100 for shields and bushings to fix that, and my coworker even begged me not to do it. We both agreed that the old one was repairable. That was not the point. Before I borrowed the tiller, the shield didn't HAVE to be repaired. I bring stuff back in as good or better condition than it was when I borrowed it. My blasted moral code again. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

firtol88 · May 26, 2005

( ... I bring stuff back in as good or better condition than it was when I borrowed it... )

All comes down to that... as it should be. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Cactus · May 26, 2005

( I bring stuff back in as good or better condition than it was when I borrowed it. )

And with a full tank of fuel regardless of how much was in it when you borrowed it.