Opinions

[GCLM]

I'm curious . . . in the picture . . the trailer seems so small and you wouldn't be able to xarry both units at the same time much less any others tools.

Was there a sowcual reason for such a small trailer?

This pic was a transitional period where I had both riders. I sold the 595 soon after this. I wouldnt carry both machines around with me. I used to mow some insanely steep properties and had a few scares, enough to get away from that kind of mowing. A neighbour/friend bought the 595 so I see it working to this day!

I would only carry the tools I needed for the day. Most times I would only carry one trimmer, the BP blower and a rider on the trailer. Once a week I would need the 21", the brush cutter once a month and so on.
The trailer was designed purely for a rider. Its a tilt. I wanted small to make it easier to tow. Heaps of hills so keeping weight down was important. Trailers worked very well for me actually!

Just had some news, Ive sold my SZ so thats one step closer to the new tractor!

 

[GCLM]

Have another question for you lot...
Ive been doing a lot more reading on the forum since I have a better understanding of what to search ie, the different number/names of these MF's. I came across one thread that said the 1705 and the 1715 is exactly the same tractor! Only difference is the "Rated Engine Speed" (off the brochure.) The 1705 has 2600rmp for 22.5hp and the 1715 is 3000rpm for 24.5hp. The displacement for both engines are exactly the same, 1123cc!
Im betting they fudged the numbers by de or up tuning the rpm's.

I guess my question is, if all is equal, could I buy the "lesser" machine and just raise the revs for the extra hp (etc)? There will be a few thousand dollars difference between the 2 machine and I'll be buggered if I want to spend it for a few extra rpm's!

Or, have I missed something here?

 

[AxleHub]

Have another question for you lot...
Ive been doing a lot more reading on the forum since I have a better understanding of what to search ie, the different number/names of these MF's. I came across one thread that said the 1705 and the 1715 is exactly the same tractor! Only difference is the "Rated Engine Speed" (off the brochure.) The 1705 has 2600rmp for 22.5hp and the 1715 is 3000rpm for 24.5hp. The displacement for both engines are exactly the same, 1123cc!
Im betting they fudged the numbers by de or up tuning the rpm's.

I guess my question is, if all is equal, could I buy the "lesser" machine and just raise the revs for the extra hp (etc)? There will be a few thousand dollars difference between the 2 machine and I'll be buggered if I want to spend it for a few extra rpm's!

Or, have I missed something here?

Yowouldbe correct that you missed something.

1. Typically the pricing difference between a GC 1705 vs GC1715 will be $1200 or so . . not thousands.

2. The engine itself is a set dislacement . . . However that does not mean it is just an rpm change. The pumps are higher flow and the engine design is made for different tolerances that handle 2.5 hp more and higher rpm needs.

3. Seats are much different

4. Auxiliary light and armoring of directionals.

There may be more but this is a start of the $1200 benefits.

 

[GCLM]

Yowouldbe correct that you missed something.

1. Typically the pricing difference between a GC 1705 vs GC1715 will be $1200 or so . . not thousands.

2. The engine itself is a set dislacement . . . However that does not mean it is just an rpm change. The pumps are higher flow and the engine design is made for different tolerances that handle 2.5 hp more and higher rpm needs.

3. Seats are much different

4. Auxiliary light and armoring of directionals.

There may be more but this is a start of the $1200 benefits.

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

 

[TJP89]

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

Typically it's XHP at XRPMs. By your logic, if you throttle up the smaller engine you have the bigger one- not how it works. I'm not a mechanical engineer, but tuning the engine can involve fuel pump adjustments and I think rod adjustments, as well as valves. While the basic engine block may be the same, it's been tinkered with in a major way at the factory. While theoretically it may be possible to boost the power, it's not a minor job for anyone but a very qualified mechanic. I'm not familiar with the tractor in question, but it sounds like there is more difference than just the engine HP. Also, $1200 is probably a close guess in difference, when I bought my CK35, it was only 700 more than the CK30, which is 4 less HP.

 

[AxleHub]

Im getting the dealer to come out and give me a trade in price next week. I'll definitely find out price differences and let you know! But the 1715 4in1 loader and mid mount is $26000, Imm pretty sure the difference will be more than your $1200.

I just dont know about the pump flow etc. Yes, it is different but if they were both running at 2000rpm, wouldnt the flow be the same? Higher revs, more flow!
PTO Hp is 18.7 v's 19.6..... Revs?

All other specs are the same? Better seats weigh more, bigger pumps, heavier built engines etc weigh more! They are exactly the same weight going off the brochure!

Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!

The approximate $1200 difference between the gc1705 and gc1715 has nothing to do with the loader and is based on US dollar prices in the US. If you are in other countries or currencies . . . Obviously It will vary.

A higher quality seat versus a lower desired seat may have little difference in weight. Your logic fails me that weight and engine dimensions support the same product with just higher rpms. There are soooooo many variables involved that debate that logic.

The fact is . . . Massey certifies each engine and its performance numbers. If it was as simple as revving an engine a couple hundred rpm, you couldn't claim pump output and hp output as different numbers.

You wrote: "Why arent back hoe versions of these machines based on the highest hp or highest spec machines? Kubota's the same!" I don't understand this statement. A GC1710 has different specs than a GC1720.

 

[GCLM]

TJP, I dont know, coming out of the lawn care industry I really dont trust any company any more! Look at the way engine manu's over stated the HP of there engines.
Kawi had 34 and 37hp engine. Only difference was the carb or the jets. The rest of the engine was basically the same for an extra 3 hp and extra price. You might see where Im coming from with this!
Turning up the revs on small engines happens all the time in the LC industry. It increases blade tip speed, increases vacuum etc.

Axle, Ive told you before I am going off Aussie dollars re the $26000 price tag. Your $1200 can easily turn into $3000au. $3k is a lot of money I dont care where you are! lol

As far as the weight, on the brochure they are exactly the same weight, exactly! One would think if there was better or heavier equipment on these things the weight would go up, even just a little bit! Bigger pumps certainly weigh more for example!
Yes, after posting I went and found the MF 1720 so I stand corrected on that! My bad!


Please dont get me wrong here, Im not trying to argue with you lot, Im just kind of thinking out loud and appreciate the input (I did ask for it)! This purchase will likely happen very soon one way or another.

I read on a thread where a mechanic told a guy that he would go for the lesser machine because there is so little difference for the price. Thats kind of what got me rolling on this!

 

[Grandad4]

Hello GCLM! I think you raise a fair point concerning what difference there might be between the 1705 and the 1715. I'd think long and hard about whether a slight gain in power (5%?) would be worth paying significantly more.

I don't know the Massey products except by reputation but have years of experience with a similar machine. It's my opinion that these small tractors are seldom limited in the work they can do by a lack of horsepower; in most circumstances their small size and weight is the limiting factor. I would expect that you could operate either of those machines for days or weeks at a time without encountering a situation where the engine power would have made any noticeable difference. There are indeed some applications where added power would make a difference of course, particularly involving pto-driven ground engagement implements such as a rotary tiller, or severe mowing. If your needs involve something like that, the up-rated engine would make sense; otherwise it wouldn't be essential.

Whichever one you choose, you'll have a fine machine.

 

[AxleHub]

Hello GCLM! I think you raise a fair point concerning what difference there might be between the 1705 and the 1715. I'd think long and hard about whether a slight gain in power (5%?) would be worth paying significantly more.

I don't know the Massey products except by reputation but have years of experience with a similar machine. It's my opinion that these small tractors are seldom limited in the work they can do by a lack of horsepower; in most circumstances their small size and weight is the limiting factor. I would expect that you could operate either of those machines for days or weeks at a time without encountering a situation where the engine power would have made any noticeable difference. There are indeed some applications where added power would make a difference of course, particularly involving pto-driven ground engagement implements such as a rotary tiller, or severe mowing. If your needs involve something like that, the up-rated engine would make sense; otherwise it wouldn't be essential.

Whichever one you choose, you'll have a fine machine.

Just for info 22.5 hp to 25 hp is 10% increase.

18.2 to 19.7 hp at reaar pto would be almost 10% increase

Pump output from 6.2 to 6.8 gpm would be just short of a 10% increase.

 

[AxleHub]

. . . . .

Axle, Ive told you before I am going off Aussie dollars re the $26000 price tag. Your $1200 can easily turn into $3000au. $3k is a lot of money I dont care where you are! lol

Greetings GCLM,

Because the bulk of readership on TBN is U.S. based . . . dollars are normally expressed in US dollars. When Canadian is mentioned its normally labelled as such.

Because you are in Australia . . . not only do you have a normal currency conversion . . . but it apears your pricing levels are different as well. I don't know if the income levels match those changes or not.

Shipping cost from Japan to Australia should be cheaper than Japan to the state of Georgia usa . . But maybe the distributor imports from the U.S. instead in small quantity.

Your brochures are a littke different than ours and you can get a 4 in 1 genuine Massey bucket . . . and I don't believe that is a commonly available item here.

 

[Grandad4]

Just for info 22.5 hp to 25 hp is 10% increase.

18.2 to 19.7 hp at reaar pto would be almost 10% increase

Pump output from 6.2 to 6.8 gpm would be just short of a 10% increase.

The Massey website shows the pto hp for those models as 18.7 and 19.6, which is either a 4.6 or 4.8 % difference depending on which way you do the calculation.
All kidding aside, that's virtually the same hp as my BX, which is virtually unfazed by the mower deck no matter how tall or heavy the grass might be. I suppose it's possible to bog these little engines on such a little tractor, but I haven't seen it in 10 years and 900 hours of sometimes heavy use.

 

[TJP89]

TJP, I dont know, coming out of the lawn care industry I really dont trust any company any more! Look at the way engine manu's over stated the HP of there engines.
Kawi had 34 and 37hp engine. Only difference was the carb or the jets. The rest of the engine was basically the same for an extra 3 hp and extra price. You might see where Im coming from with this!
Turning up the revs on small engines happens all the time in the LC industry. It increases blade tip speed, increases vacuum etc.

Axle, Ive told you before I am going off Aussie dollars re the $26000 price tag. Your $1200 can easily turn into $3000au. $3k is a lot of money I dont care where you are! lol

As far as the weight, on the brochure they are exactly the same weight, exactly! One would think if there was better or heavier equipment on these things the weight would go up, even just a little bit! Bigger pumps certainly weigh more for example!
Yes, after posting I went and found the MF 1720 so I stand corrected on that! My bad!


Please dont get me wrong here, Im not trying to argue with you lot, Im just kind of thinking out loud and appreciate the input (I did ask for it)! This purchase will likely happen very soon one way or another.

I read on a thread where a mechanic told a guy that he would go for the lesser machine because there is so little difference for the price. Thats kind of what got me rolling on this!

OK, but I do know you can't get the power of the bigger tractor just by cranking up the revs on the smaller one. Engines, especially multi cylinder diesel ones can have much different power ratings on the exact same displacement block. As an example, the Kioti NX series is 4 tractors across 15HP. All have, IIRC, the same engine, but computer and manually tuned for different HP. Even though they have the same engine, you could never get 60HP from the NX4510, (45HP), at least not without serious tinkering and reprogramming.

 

[GCLM]

Well, just had the dealer here to have a look at my B1700. The differences between the 1705 and 1715 is the revs are turned up and they use a different diff to handle it. Also the seat.

It is the same engine only with the revs turned up!
No, I cannot turn up the revs due to the different diff, or something along those lines.

Im getting a price on the lesser machine with drive over deck and 4 in 1 loader. The loader is Aussie made.

Im now just waiting on change over price so wish me luck!

Thank you all for your input and I'll let you all know how I go!

 

[Fiziksgeek]

The PTO speeds are set on each machine according to the engine RPM. If you run the engine at a higher rpm, the pto will run a higher rpm too. So for example, the GC1705 rear PTO reaches 540 rpms at just under the rated engine speed of 2600 rpm. Running the engine at 3000 rpms would make your rear pto spin at ~625 rpm. Similar increase for the mid pto also.

I have no idea if over running the PTOs by 15% causes a problem for the implements attached to them, but I wouldn't do it, not for 1hp. If you need to squeeze every last bit of power out of the machine, you need a bigger machine!

There are other features that you get on the more expensive machine....not really worth the price difference IMO though. The 1705 is the best package.

 

[GCLM]

The 1705 was delivered last week and it has more than enough power for my needs. I wont be tweaking engine rpm's and to be honest, they may be set a little higher than spec on delivery.
They are set at over 3000prm.

Can someone tell me where the rpm's should be set at full and not under load?

Also, it has the 60" SD deck. Can someone tell me the blade specs? Length, offset and hole diameter. They look to be pretty low lift blades. I'd like to put some mediums on.

I made an error in judgement and went with the R4 tires when I should of gone with Ag. Would putting weight in the rear tires help with grip? Weight would also be good for loader work so, thoughts?

Thanks for any help!

 

[AxleHub]

The 1705 was delivered last week and it has more than enough power for my needs. I wont be tweaking engine rpm's and to be honest, they may be set a little higher than spec on delivery.
They are set at over 3000prm.

Can someone tell me where the rpm's should be set at full and not under load?

Also, it has the 60" SD deck. Can someone tell me the blade specs? Length, offset and hole diameter. They look to be pretty low lift blades. I'd like to put some mediums on.

I made an error in judgement and went with the R4 tires when I should of gone with Ag. Would putting weight in the rear tires help with grip? Weight would also be good for loader work so, thoughts?

Thanks for any help!

Gc1705 is designed for 2600 rpm while the gc1715 is designed for 3000. Some want to run them faster but that is not their designed concept. ESPECIALLYthe 1st 25 hours . . I'd vary engine speed between 2000 and 2600 to let tje motor work itself into good shape. I personally would not over rpm it that 1st 25 hour period.

Weight in rear tires is good regardless of tire type. Choice of tires is really based on purpose. Check inflation pressure too. If you are on lawns at all or hard surfaces . . You'll be glad you don't have ag tires. If you are going to be in fields with loose dirt you'll probably wish you had them.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

The 1705 was delivered last week and it has more than enough power for my needs. I wont be tweaking engine rpm's and to be honest, they may be set a little higher than spec on delivery.
They are set at over 3000prm.

Can someone tell me where the rpm's should be set at full and not under load?

Also, it has the 60" SD deck. Can someone tell me the blade specs? Length, offset and hole diameter. They look to be pretty low lift blades. I'd like to put some mediums on.

I made an error in judgement and went with the R4 tires when I should of gone with Ag. Would putting weight in the rear tires help with grip? Weight would also be good for loader work so, thoughts?

Thanks for any help!

Not sure what you mean by the first statement, but yes, the gauge goes above 2600 rpm and throttle lever will allow you to go higher. Never played with it significantly higher than 2600 though. When doing light work or just going the tractor around, I run somewhere in the 1800 rpm area, little more, little less depending on exactly what I am doing and where I am going!

Not sure about blade specs, have you tried them yet? It blows adequately IMO. I'd recommend removing the deflector though.

Filling the tires will help with traction. You'll find yourself a little light in the back with the loader on, even with an empty bucket. Massey is a little better than some other brands, but you'll want to either drop the loader, or put some weight on the back. You should always have something heavy on the 3pt hitch for any real loader work, so you don't overload the front axle. If you have need for a box blade, they work pretty good, otherwise get a ballast box.