Opinons wanted on Craigslist competition

[Teachu2]

I think our country goes the way its average person goes. We grew by the struggle and efforts of common people and often "grew our leaders" to be the historical names.

Just today on the media it was announced that our sister state . . Minnesota . . is the 3rd highest state for insurance fraud in the country (CA, FL, then tiny MN). APPARENTLY its mob related car collision claims and intentional sudden stops to get hit.

Every day I hear people talking about kids today . . . too often with a hopeless tone.
Decades ago there would be those types of conversations too . . about us . . . but their generation showed a level of effort and determination and integrity that "spoke" much louder and stronger to kids of my generation than the voices of others. Its our turn now to act with determination and demonstrate that the almighty buck and a "Me 1st" isn't what built this country.

I would have thought on a tractor related site that everyone would have been keenly aware of a similar thinking . . . . .

The entire TBN membership is a tiny fraction of the Craigslist user population, and the entire country. I live in a conservative part of California (ag and oil are the drivers here) and I get reminded every election that LA and SF are the voting blocks here.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I have to say that reading this thread has been a great disappointment to me.

This idea that . . its just business . . . or that is just how things go . . . or "I'm not my brother's keeper" . . . is more than just sad . . . its pathetic.

Let's start with the person who started the thread . . he had both a moral dilema and a personal dilema and a genuine sense of concern.

And what did nearly 40 people express? Buyer beware.

Have you no awareness that Craigslist could be altered greatly should officials discover these type of things on their own??

I heard the word "dishonest" mentioned many times . . . how politically correct of many of you. Fraud is a legal term punishable by fines and jail time in virtually every state in the nation. It is defined as deliberate lies told to solicit money as a business enterprise.

I read only 1 person out of 40+ who even suggested contacting Craigslist. And if you don't think they wouldn't investigate and take action . . you are totally unaware. Ebay paid millions in fines.

Here are the issues in most states or federal:

IRS . . A person selling an indivual's owned item at profit is considered none income tax related . . but a person in the business of buying and selling is required by federal law to report gains and losses.

State dept of revenue . . same as IRS situation.

Commerce across State lines for purposes of intentional fraud or deception for profit. State Attorney General's office.

State Dept. Of revenue for sales tax collection for businesses in the same state (not individuals but for persons in the business of buying and selling)

Local/County/State police . . the practice of intentional and willfull fraud and deception with intent to profit as a business enterprise.

if you want Craigslist to stay the positive opportunity it is . . . then everyone of you should have ebcouraged the thread creator as follows in my opinion:

Thread creator . . thank you for noticing this very disturbing pattern of abuse. As you know this pattern violates the CL terms of service as well as several potential legal issues and also harms our users. Please don't think about eye for an eye or ignoring this. You are correct to worry about how others might be harmed and right to be concerned for CL as well. None of us desire restrictive controls be placed and added on to CL. Please do not report your concerns to the perpetrator as your safety is important. Report all you knoe to Craigs List and they will pursue all channels and efforts.

Personal note: This example the thread creator highlighted is GLARINGINGLY illegal . . and not just a "boys will be boys" scenario.

Wake up people . . You either stand tall or sit small on ethics and personal responsibility . . . remember . . your kids and grand kids and neighbor kids watch your moves in life.

Axlehub

One question. Did you believe there were WMD's in Iraq because G Bush said there was? I appreciate your take on this, and believe you are absolutely correct. However, consider the lies our own Government tells us every day, then tell me how Craigslist can do any better. We live in an unethical time...

 

[AxleHub]

One question. Did you believe there were WMD's in Iraq because G Bush said there was? I appreciate your take on this, and believe you are absolutely correct. However, consider the lies our own Government tells us every day, then tell me how Craigslist can do any better. We live in an unethical time...

We make it an unethical time IMO. We'll never know if Iraq had wmd because we left the "backdoor" to syria open for 5 months and even the news reported how many trains were travelling to syria.

We know for certain Syria had way way way more chemical weapons and more sophisticated versions than we ever expected . . and an obvious potential is they were Iraqi because Iran didn't have that level of weaponry sophistication to sell/give syria.

But on topic . . Craigslist can do alot . . because they already saw how badly EBay spent to fix their gov't spotted flaws. They can do alot because they want to keep their profits . . its in their own best interests. And knowing a "game is being played on them" they have the technoligy to spot him if looking . . . and then be looking for similar patterns in others. Clean it up and make ut better for both buyers and sellers.

And speaking of best interests. Encouraging the thread creator to follow his instinct that people were being cheated . . and then encouraginf him to report it . . is by way of good ethics . . . Also in his and our best interests. We don't want Craigs List to get hammered for inaction on those gaming the system. Its not a process of "narc-ing on someone" . . . Its about protecting the innocent.

"Buyer beware" is a fine concept for mistakes and accidental omissions . . . but we're not talking about accidents. We're talking about you bringing a baseball bat to a gunfight because thw bad guy is prepared to do whatever it takes to win.

Ask yourself a real simple question. The thread starter says the example he used he was beaten each time every time by the same person. How is that possible . . unless its a group working against you or a tech based effort ? Otherwise they couldn't have the time to spot and get to them so quickly.

 

[dusty3030]

Average used camel seller was no more honest in Abrahams day as is a random person on the internet peddling something in this day and time. It's nothing new and there is not much you can do other than know if you are buying anything from anyone you have to be vigilant. People lie. You ignore the person selling and focus on the item for sale.

 

[AxleHub]

The entire TBN membership is a tiny fraction of the Craigslist user population, and the entire country. I live in a conservative part of California (ag and oil are the drivers here) and I get reminded every election that LA and SF are the voting blocks here.

Greetings teachu2,

My point wasn't about the number on craigslist. My point is and was . . that rich or poor or somewhere in between tbn members are people who like and use machines and get their hands dirty. Their efforts are to accomplish something related to work and improvements. Their day jobs aren't the issue but dirt or grease under their fingernails is . . Even if those nails are manicurred. And almost 100% told the thread starter "that dishonesty and fraud and taking advantage of others is just how it is . . So acceot it".

To me thats stunning. And TBN has readers from many other parts of the world. I surely don't want them to think everyone in the US is a milktoast on ethics and action . . least of all people who own and operate tractors. Yet almost 40 in a row came across as taking advantage of others is OK - - - its not OK . . . Not not not OK. As individuals and as a country . . . either we stand tall or sit small. All in my opinion.

 

[AxleHub]

Average used camel seller was no more honest in Abrahams day as is a random person on the internet peddling something in this day and time. It's nothing new and there is not much you can do other than know if you are buying anything from anyone you have to be vigilant. People lie. You ignore the person selling and focus on the item for sale.

I disagree. In decades past . . the bad guys didn't have permission to be bad guys from the general population. The U.S wouldn't even exist if people in the latet 1700s didn't have the backbone to say "there is something we CAN do". I don't want my children or your children to believe that its acceptable to be the bad guy. Business man . . fine. Sharp buyer or seller . . . fine. But manipulator taking advantage of the weak and vulnerable or caring . . . not fine.

 

[dusty3030]

One thing for sure the average consumer has more access to information these days to research before they buy.

 

[varmint]

I would agree with axlehub- it isn't fine to be less than straight about your dealings. We have become accustomed to BS, manipulation and falsehoods being presented as fact, and we aren't the better for it! Imagine if John Kerry, who may have lost the election because of the Fast Boat lies, had been in charge instead of Cheney and Bush. How many billions would have been kept in the country, how many people would be alive, or have their limbs, or be free of mental issues caused by a hideous, unnecessary war that opened a Pandora's Box of trouble in a far away place. To paraphrase Rumsfeld, you fight the wars you have to, not the ones you think you want to. No wonder we don't trust government, who should be serving us, or others in general. Back on topic, don't you think you can sense when someone is trustworthy, vs. when you "want" the person to be trustworthy, but something isn't right in a potential deal?
Opps, time to take my meds.

 

[AxleHub]

. . . . Back on topic, don't you think you can sense when someone is trustworthy, vs. when you "want" the person to be trustworthy, but something isn't right in a potential deal?
Opps, time to take my meds.

I used to do significant quantities of interviewing of ex-offenders, major delinquents, and other job seekers etc.. I also worked with politicians at times and many salesman in training situations.

With practice and certain unique skills you can sense untruth often. But all of the categories I mentioned also "practice their skills at deception" and they can get very good at it. In addition . . . a category of peoplethat are sociopaths don't have remorse of any kind . . so they are virtually undetectable even by practiced skilled observers.

The problem in today's society is too often people aren't proud of being honest. Too often dishonesty is accepted as ok or as a way to get ahead. Dishonest people "practice" the reasons and justifications for dishonesty and rarely are they called on it. They get money and respect and a reputation for being "sharper than others".

I don't believe the traditional normal honest person has a chance against practiced dishonesty. Dishonest people will use ANY reason and ANY motivation as justification including suposed handicaps or war service or faked papers etc.. they target the older people or play on greed.

They absolutely depend on people to either accept dishonesty or not fight dishonesty. And they practice till they are good at it.

 

[EddieWalker]

One question. Did you believe there were WMD's in Iraq because G Bush said there was? I appreciate your take on this, and believe you are absolutely correct. However, consider the lies our own Government tells us every day, then tell me how Craigslist can do any better. We live in an unethical time...

Yes, I believed him when he said that. I also believe Clinton when he said, and when John Kerry said it, and all the other governments in the world who said their where Weapons of Mass Destruction there. Iraq used gas against Iran, and against the Kurds, so the real question is where did he hide them? A fairly well known newspaper call the NY Times wrote this story that you might find interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0

There are quite a few sources out there that confirm that they found WMD's and even more stories about the fear of what ISIS is going to do with them now that we have abandoned Iraq and handed control of the Middle East over to ISIS and Iran.