OPTIMA Batteries

[WilliamBos]

Funny you should mention tnat.

ODYSSEY Batteries

Are those tenders that desulphate worth the extra money? Need one for my quad.

The Optimas cells are round. The Odysseys cells are square, using all empty space that the optima can't use (due to the round cell's design 3 in a row and another 3 in parallel to it, leaves empty spaces in between the cells). So a Odyssey can be smaller than the Optima with the same rating. Just look at 6 bottles or cans of beer from the top, then 6 equal square boxes.


Because a battery is 5 years old, I don't replace it, I test it. If it tests bad, then i'll desulphate it and use it again until she is really done, or a cell is open or shorted. We have a lawnmower battery that is 12 years old and will kick the el cheapo batteries in the butt any day. My original tractor battery is still working, which is 8 years old. I had to desulphate it a couple of times, but she starts my tractor every time.

 

[DieselMonk]

Funny you should mention tnat.

ODYSSEY Batteries

Are those tenders that desulphate worth the extra money? Need one for my quad.

Before I start something here and need a flame retardant suit, I just say this:
Yes, there are SOME that are decent and it does work. But there are also some that are utter worst piece of something and absolute waste of money, and do NOT work! There are battery tenders and there are desulfators. Some work hand in hand, others not. To figure this out, it is gonna take you a lot of reading. I've done a years worth of testing with batteries, 4 different maintainers and 5 different desulfators and know what works and what doesn't. Some cost money and some are quite inexpensive.

As for the Odyssey... I have one myself with the metal case, as the battery is mounted to close to the engine and the heat killing a flooded lead acid battery after a while. Also not starting the car for 3 or 4 weeks, doesn't help it either.

There is also a different way of desulfating a battery using an electric fence energizer for life stock. That does work too. There are a few members here in this forum that did it with that fence energizer before.

 

[thcri]

After one year my original battery corroded everything. I caught it probably a tad bit too late or should I say my dealer backed own replacing under warranty. My optima is now close to 8 years old on my TC29D and still works like a champ.

 

[JoeBuyer]

I have been replacing batteries as they go out with Optimas where they fit the load, otherwise Interstate on the big ones. Optimas may cost more but I appreciate never having to worry. Orientation flexibility is nice on some tractors as well. Cheap batteries have a way of failing at the wrong time. Like -10 deg outside or when you need them the most.

 

[jinman]

After one year my original battery corroded everything. I caught it probably a tad bit too late or should I say my dealer backed own replacing under warranty. My optima is now close to 8 years old on my TC29D and still works like a champ.

Murph, I thought you were looking for a new tractor. Am I confused? Didn't you post that earlier? It has nothing to do with batteries, I just saw your post and it triggered a memory. . . good or bad.:confused3:

 

[Gary Fowler]

My only experience with Optima batteries is with the Red Top one that was in my 2009 Kubota RTV 900 when I got it (used) with 69 hours on it in 2010. The Optima went dead overnight after about 6 months of use and wouldnt take a charge. The only Optima dealer around me was a NAPA store and the guy said he didnt stock them because they were so expensive that most folks wouldnt pay the double price for them. I guess I am one of them because I bought a NAPA battery to replace it. I guess I got a bad one but that just goes to show that all batteries makers can make a bad one occassionally.
I agree with MountainView, price per month of use is the way to judge a battery and those of you getting 12 years on a battery should be buying lottery tickets as you are extremely lucky. Extreme cold AND extreme heat get a battery fast. The Canadians got the cold but I got the heat. 5 years is pushing the life on a normal battery. I still have the original in my 2007 Chevy truck but I can tell it is getting weak. I look for it to conk out this winter sometime. Since retired, I stay home a lot so the truck may set for a week or two at a time and I can tell that it sounds a little week in starting. It has already beat my average life of batteries by a year and I have used about all of the brands out there.
Battery life depend a lot on how much they are used. All batteries eventually exhaust the material in them and sulfate up so constant use and recharging will eventually run them in the ground. A battery that just sets in the equipment with a maintainer on it and gets used a few times a year may last 12 years but I dont think any battery that is used in a heavy load like cars with all the power equipment is going to last that long. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. Your opinion like mileage may vary.

 

[barbqranch]

Personally, price per month of use needs to also consider the time, cost, and trouble of having to replace a battery at the most inconvenient time and location.

I have never used an Optima battery, but my understanding is that they are more sensitive to over-charging.

 

[WilliamBos]

After some reading, think I would sway towards an odyssey.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Personally, price per month of use needs to also consider the time, cost, and trouble of having to replace a battery at the most inconvenient time and location.

I have never used an Optima battery, but my understanding is that they are more sensitive to over-charging.

Most batteries as they start to age (4years or more old) get noticeably weaker especially with cold weather. If you encounter that and worry about getting inconvenienced especially if you only have one vehicle, just buy a new battery every 4 years for about $100 average cost for a 60 month warranted battery and then you have $25 per year invested and a 12 month grace period. Still cheaper than over $200 for an Optima that I dont think would last 8 years without problems.

 

[Dr Dave]

I have had the red top and yellow top Optima, both were used when I got them, I used them in dirt track stock cars with no alternator, charged them once a week, after selling stock cars my son used them in his truck with a high amp sound system, sold with truck. these were over 12 years old, when sold. Before that I used Die hard gold, could only get 2 years out of them, warrantied once free. I just put a used Napa spiral cell in my tractor, its 5 years old, has sat 3 years in the garage, started right up. Replace 2 large 6 volt tractor batteries with this, have room for 2 more in the battery box.:laughing::laughing::laughing:The best thing about the Optima is no acid leakage or corosion. If the price was lower I would have all Optimas, but for extreme duty, high vibration aplications, you can not beat them.

Dave

 

[Ramstack]

Thank you all for the information. It is greatly appreciated. I will also need to dig a little deeper on adding that relay.

 

[pedalstomper78]

Before you toss a battery in do the relay. Best $20 you'll ever spend on the tractor. If you need help with it, i can set you up with a relay, wire it, send it to you letting you know where to put the wires. Its quite simple.

 

[MDA1775]

Wow, there's a lot of info on this thread. I'm going to throw a little bit more on it. Both Optima and Enersys (Odyssey) got their patents from the Gates rubber company. Optima bought the spiral wound patent and Enersys bought the flat plate patent. There is no particular difference in the way they work since they are both AGM batteries. That said in the same footprint the Odyssey will have more CCA's and or reserve capacity since the gaps between the spiral cells are not present.
As for long lasting, now a days the nod has to go to the Odyssey because since Optima moved their manufacturing to Mexico their batteries don't seem to be quite as robust and they don't recover as well from deep discharge and other abuse.
As has been stated ALL AGM batteries are voltage sensitive but only when you go above 15V. That's because AGM's use a recombinant technology and going much over 15V will make them out gas since they just can't do it fast enough. Up to 15 they will recharge much faster than similarly sized flooded cell batteries since they can accept current (Amps) much more efficiently because of their much lower internal resistance.

Regarding maintenance systems and desulphators the first thing you have to understand is that any charger and or alternator is actually "desulphating" your battery since charging by definition is breaking up PbSo4 crystals. They are limited in that they can only break up small relatively new crystals and that as the battery ages, sits in a discharged state etc the crystals enlarge and regular chargers and alternators cannot break up the larger crystals. That is where the maintenance systems with a true desulphating capability come into play. The ones often referred to as "Tenders" are maintenance systems not desulphating systems. You can get systems that do both and will generally be way ahead by doing so since you can often give years more life to batteries when you use a true desulphator.
Now for the rest of the story as I have posted before I work for PulseTech products who does make systems that do both, I have also been teaching battery maintenance to the US Military for over 14 yrs and as such I am extremely familiar with both the Optima and Enersys products. In fact using our equipment in Kuwait in the last 18 mo of operation the battery shop there recovered over 7 million dollars worth of batteries that had been removed from military equipment and were going to disposal. That's a lot of batteries. This thread is so long I may posted in it before but as it grew it started to become battery type specific and I have a lot experience with both companies products. You can got to Battery Chargers and Battery Desulfators by Pulsetech Products and learn more or PM me. Mark

 

[Mickey_Fx]

MDA, nice hearing from someone with knowledge that goes beyond individuals personal experience. I was working with Gates Energy Products in the mid-80's for an emergency medical product. Few yrs after we adopted the starved electrolyte tech, others in the same industry abandoned Ni-Cads and went with this tech.

Seeing you mention desulfation I was wondering what tech your company was using. Looking at the company name gave a strong hint. So many of the consumer battery chargers with supposed desulfation capabilities just bump up the voltage for short periods of time to stir up the electrolyte and hopefully get some of the newer crystals to break up. The better and proven tech is a relatively high voltage pulse. See that is the approach you company has taken.

Thanks for jumping in here.

 

[MDA1775]

Mickey, my pleasure . Yes, we use pulse technology to break up the lead sulfate crystals. Our pulse is patented and most of the companies that claim pulsing reference our pulses and try to replicate it without violating the patents. A big cat and mouse game I don't have to deal with. As you point out the voltage spikes are a extremely high with very fast rise times and very little current. Lab tests at Ohio State and Warren MI show we can triple the number of cycles you get out of a battery. In the real world it is often more than that. It is frustrating and amusing at times trying to teach people that the failure rates they have do not need to occur but many assume it to be a fixed cost of doing business so they accept it. Here is a link that you can look at has some good pictures of the difference of cycling with and without our pulsing. Pulsetech - Pulsetech
Regards,

Mark

 

[stevem5215]

Ok, got one from Amazon. I'm hoping this will solve my ongoing problem with the batteries only lasting me two years in the once a month used FarmPro. I bought the Extreme single 2.5amp model.

Will put it on the tractor battery this coming deer hunting weekend and see how it goes !

Steve

 

[sixdogs]

I use Optima in my JD 790 that has the battery up front. The original factory battery leaked and made a rust mess of things for me. Sure, a sealed battery would or might have been equally good but the Optima for me has been perfect. Also, I charge all my batteries just before winter and am convinced it adds to life expectancy. I've got a 7 year old Kubota factory battery in my B7800.

 

[ultrarunner]

Have only one optima and it is 6 volt for the T speedster... no generator so it's battery or mag.

It's a little over 5 years old and so far so good...

No Pulsetech for Optima 6 volts?

 

[jinman]

Mickey, my pleasure . Yes, we use pulse technology to break up the lead sulfate crystals. Our pulse is patented and most of the companies that claim pulsing reference our pulses and try to replicate it without violating the patents. A big cat and mouse game I don't have to deal with. As you point out the voltage spikes are a extremely high with very fast rise times and very little current. Lab tests at Ohio State and Warren MI show we can triple the number of cycles you get out of a battery. In the real world it is often more than that. It is frustrating and amusing at times trying to teach people that the failure rates they have do not need to occur but many assume it to be a fixed cost of doing business so they accept it. Here is a link that you can look at has some good pictures of the difference of cycling with and without our pulsing. Pulsetech - Pulsetech
Regards,

Mark

Mark, can you link us to the independent tests at Ohio State and Warren, MI? Your case studies seem to be mostly anecdotal descriptions of users and even have unsubstantiated facts. For example, this quote, "In summary we now pay more for our batteries, but they last longer. How much longer? We don’t know yet, but already we can see the cost savings in money spent on replacement batteries." Seriously! That is an incredibly silly statement. This person says something lasts longer and then turns right around and says he has no idea or doesn't know. Talk about a faith-only based statement.

Most of us don't have "battery shops" since our batteries remain in our vehicles. Your most economical maintainer is $100 and runs off house current. That means to use it, we have to have an outlet. Sure, you make solar powered models that are even more expensive than the basic model. I'm not saying your technology doesn't work, but a battery that lasts three times as long because I spent three times as much money just doesn't make sense. If I have a fleet of vehicles and an organized maintenance program, your system might have economic benefits. I just fail to see how it is really beneficial for the average user who has one or two batteries to maintain.

Perhaps, if you need a battery maintainer the Pulsetech makes sense for the average user. For myself, I paid less than $120 for my Optima red top over 8 years ago. It still works great. I don't have to do anything special to it and it starts my tractor every time I go to use it. I don't have to fool with hookup to a maintainer or even have to park the tractor close to the outlet. Certainly, I don't mean to say that your maintainer is not good, but so far my $60 battery charger has been right there every time I've needed it for over 20 years. That's also hard to beat.

 

[MDA1775]

Jim,

If you're getting 8 yrs out of your battery more power to you (pun intended). What you are experiencing is great but not the norm for batteries and unfortunately the cost of lead has driven prices up and in some cases quality down so you might not be as fortunate on your next battery. You being just up the road in Wise county makes your battery life even more impressive since I'm all too familiar with the heat we've have the past few years.

Having said that why is having equipment start when you want it to important? As a hobbyist I have limited time to get out and use my equipment getting there and having a dead battery is the difference between getting what I want to do done and driving back to town to buy a battery etc. or waiting for it to recharge (if it will) and that applies to getting my motorcycle or atv started as well as my tractor. Sure the website has some quotes that people write in that make sense to them and our marketing people but not to you and sometimes me either. Most of the website is marketing but the plate graphics and explanation are quite good in terms of showing you the difference between cycling with with and without pulsing. Not to defend the quotes the company uses but in the case of the one you selected what he meant was since adopting our technology his battery life had already surpassed what he had been getting in the past so he was happy and he didn't know how much more he was going to get out of the batteries.
The reports I referred to are about an inch and half thick double sided and bound so it is not scanned and posted.
If you want to read the summary I can break it up and email it to you depending on what size files you can handle.

As for solar systems the 2 watt retails for 89.95 and it is plenty for anything that does not have significant key off parasitic loads. You can also use a QuadLink and maintain 4 pieces of equipment with one maintenance charger. Though the Xtreme you mentioned is a 2.5A charger so it can be used on large batteries too. So it does more than just desufate batteries, it will also charge them and act as a maintainer.

So send me an email if you'd like to read the report since I don't want to be accused of not supporting the information I presented and since you're close by stop in and I'll walk you through the lab so you can have a better idea what we do with batteries. Then you can explain all of this stuff.

One other thing the military is getting 18-24 mo out of their red top Optima's right now, a lot of that has to do with their use profile but unfortunately they don't seem to be lasting as long as the older ones.

Mark