OT: TREX Fencing

[TractorLarry]

Yeah. I wish I could do it myself. Unfortunately I have $250,000 worth of stainless steel in my spine that prevents such desires...

I just replaced 2 posts last week. $12 for the two posts $10 for the concrete 2 hrs to dig out the old ones and reset the new ones Next day about 30 min to pull nails and put the fence panel back on with some screws. $750 for four posts? I need to think about this as a side job.

 

[TractorLarry]

Ok, I'm going on a completely different track here.

I've 99.9% decided I'm going with a standard wood fence. What I'm not sure of yet is the material. PT Pine, Cedar, etc...

I will probably go with this company:

Residential and Commercial Fence Products in Northern Virginia, Maryland and DC  ::  Beitzell Fence

Yesterday I had a chance to see their actual work in the neighborhood, and it was really very nice.

And the prices they paid were a good 40-50% less than the quote I got from the "famous US-wide fencing firm" that gave me the current quote of $8000. Not including haul-away. Another $1650 for that.

That's a lot for 188 feet of 6' fence and one 10 ft double-gate. I didn't realize how high that price was until yesterday.

As long as the above folks pan out during the estimate, that's probably where I'll go.

Cedar or Pine? That is the question...

-Larry

 

[EddieWalker]

I would use Presure Treated wood. I know people will coment on how it's not as good as it used to be, and that may be true, but it's still pretty effective. I do know that all wood and all treatments have and will fail. It's not a perfect material, but for you dollar, it's still the biggest bang for you buck. If you price cedar posts, you'll see what I mean. The big advantage of cedar over preasure treated is how it looks. Cedar will rot in the ground like anything else. If it's not treated and designated for ground use, it will rot allot faster then preasure treated wood will.

When you look at a fence and the contractors work, look at how the concrete is done around the posts. Most will just dump the concrete and leave it flat. It takes a few minutes to build up a nice slope around the post. If they do this, you got a winner.

Next look at how they attach there pickets. If they nail them in, they will twist and turn over time. Nails will always fail on exterior wood structures allot faster then screws. If they double screw each picket to the purlins, you have top quality workmanship.

How far apart are there posts? 8 feet is normal, but the purlins will sag over time and let the bottoms of the pickets rest on the ground. This will cause the pickets to rot from the bottom up and it just looks bad. It will cost more, but having your posts on 6 foot centers will allow 2x4 purlins to stay true and not sag. Especially if you overlap the ends so that only two end at one post.

Be careful of the prebuilt fence panels. They are fast to put up and about as much as buying the materials loose, but they never last very long. Building the fence from individual boards results in a much stronger, straiter fence, but is more labor intensive.

Most fence companies make a profit and stay in business by being fast and cutting corners. A handyman or contractor will build you a better fence that will last twice as long if you can find one that you trust. I repair allot of fences built by the pros and the reason they fail is always the same thing. Conrete not crowned, pickets nailed in and posts set on 8 foot centers.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[TractorLarry]

Good info. Thanks!

-Larry

 

[TractorLarry]

Some guys are using galvanized "Screw Nails". Are these acceptable?

I think this is what they mean:

Hašpl a.s. - Screw nails

I think asking anyone to use normal galvanized screws is going to raise the price considerably due to the labor, wouldn't it?

-Larry

 

[jeffinsgf]

Some guys are using galvanized "Screw Nails". Are these acceptable?

I think this is what they mean:

Hašpl a.s. - Screw nails

I think asking anyone to use normal galvanized screws is going to raise the price considerably due to the labor, wouldn't it?

-Larry

Nope, that is not what Eddie is talking about. And, no, it should not raise the price by any significant amount. The screws that should be used are a grey coated screw with either a Phillips or square drive head. They need no pilot hole and they are shot in with an electric drill with a clutch or an impact driver. Anybody that has done it knows that it is way faster than hand nailing and only marginally slower than pneumatic nailing. Don't back down on this point. Screws -- real screws, not twisty nails.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm not familiar with "screw nails." Just regular old 1 1/2 inch coated deck screws that are aporived for presure treated wood. The nails used most of the time are not even rated for modern day treate wood anyway, but the wood strinks and the nails work there way out long before they rust off. Price on a fence might be $20 to $40 more in materials and another hour or so in labor. It's not a deal breaker, but when you do fences every day, all day long, you try can speed it up by using a nail gun and make a little more profit.

Eddie

 

[TractorLarry]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'll try, but so far from what I'm seeing (looking at a LOT of new fences in the neighborhood) no one around here is using screws. They are nails, or screw-nails.

I know the "famous nation-wide" firm that gave me the ridiculous 8K (plus $1600 Haul-Away) for an exact replacement wood fence uses screw-nails.

Most were double-nailed, however.

A couple of new questions...

One I looked at used 1X6's instead of 1X3's for the pickets. What are the advantages or disadvantages of using 1X6's vs 1X3's for pickets?

It seems to me the potential for warping might be greater due to the increased number of pickets, but then again may be lower due to the smaller surface area of the picket.

Also, the wood I'm seeing these days is nothing like what my fense was/is. When my fence was new, it was that traditional green-looking pressure-treated lumber.

What I'm seeing around here now is a more yellow-colored lumber. Kinda like it was dyed yellow more than pressure treated.

What has changed? I know something with the government and the chemicals changed, but I don't know the details.

Is it better to go with Cedar over pine, as far as longevity goes?

Is there a different material (wood) I should consider.

The second company is coming for my estimate tomorrow at 2pm.

Thanks

-Larry

 

[TractorLarry]

BTW... I know what screws you are talking about. I have several boxes of them in the garage. I bought them at sears to use when I did minor repairs on the fence. They have the square drive.

-Larry

Nope, that is not what Eddie is talking about. And, no, it should not raise the price by any significant amount. The screws that should be used are a grey coated screw with either a Phillips or square drive head. They need no pilot hole and they are shot in with an electric drill with a clutch or an impact driver. Anybody that has done it knows that it is way faster than hand nailing and only marginally slower than pneumatic nailing. Don't back down on this point. Screws -- real screws, not twisty nails.

 

[TractorLarry]

Ok, all the estimates are in.

Contractor Estimate 1:

• 186 Feet 6' Pressure Treated Lumber
• 6' Privacy Fence
• 4X4 Fence Posts
• Posts buried in dirt only with Dry-Pack
• Nailed Assembly
• 6X6 Gate Posts
• One 10 Foot Double Gate
• Haul-Away of old fence

$9500.

This was the "Nation-Wide Famous Company"

Contractor # 2:

• 186 Feet 6' Pressure Treated Lumber
• 6' Privacy Fence
• 4X4 Fence Posts
• Post buried in dirt only with Dry-Pack
• Nailed Assembly
• 6X6 Gate Posts
• One 10 Foot Double Gate
• One 4 Foot Gate
• In addition, Replacement of current interior dog kennel fence
• 80 Foot of 4' Picket Fence - Pressure Treated Pine
• Posts buried in dirt only with Dry-Pack
• 6X6 Gate Posts
• Two 4 Foot Gates
• Haul Away of all old fence materials

$6300.00 (Note that for $3200 LESS than Contractor #1, I'm getting BOTH fences replaced.)

Contractor #3:

• 186 Feet 6' Pressure Treated Lumber
• 6' Privacy Fence
• 4X4 Fence Posts
• 30" Hole, 6" Gravel Base, then Dry-Pack
• Nailed Assembly (Galvanized Ring Nails)
• 6X6 Gate Posts
• One 10 Foot Double Gate
• Sag prevention cable system on 10 foot gate
• Double ground-latches with pipes set in concrete for 10 foot gate
• One 4 Foot Gate
• In addition, Replacement of current interior dog kennel fence
• 80 Foot of 4' Picket Fence - Pressure Treated Pine
• 30" Hole, 6" Gravel Base, then Dry-Pack
• 6X6 Gate Posts
• Two 4 Foot Gates
• Haul Away of all old fence materials and excess landscape timbers resulting from Dog-Kennel re-design
• All Gate hardware to be of heavy duty construction.

$7200.00 (Note that for $2300 LESS than Contractor #1, I'm getting BOTH fences replaced.)

I'm going with contractor #3, even though they are $900 more than #2.

Contractor #1 is just too expensive, and I was only getting HALF of the work done at that price.

Contractor #2 was not receptive to my special request (gravel bases for posts) and was 2 days late in getting me the estimate. Also has 2 hits on their BBB and currently shown as not recommended.

Contractor #3, while $900 more expensive, met my special requests (gravel base for posts, heavy duty gate hardware, etc...), were prompt, very easy to work with, and have a clean BBB. The are also rated the #1 fencing company in the local Consumers Digest Magazine.

Try as I might, NO ONE in this area constructs fences with screws. Just not gonna happen, unless I do it myself, and the $250,000 worth of stainless steel I have in my spine says it ain't gonna happen

Thanks for all your help guys. I think I got the best deal I could, along with the best contractor I could.

-Larry