Other hydraulics hooked to Power Beyond???

Gary_in_Indiana · Oct 25, 2004

I spoke with my Deere guy today and got quite a revelation. He told me that I should NOT hook up my TCC top & tilt to my Power Beyond. He explained that doing so creates a situation wherein the 3PH and T&T will then be using the same continuous feed. Apparently, the Power Beyond is designed for continuous feed operations (like the backhoe) only. I'm the first to admit a lot of this was lost on me so I hope I did an adequate job of paraphrasing what he said.

The bottom line is that it now appears that I should have the additional 3rd, 4th & 5th SCV installed. Unfortunately, the price tag on that is about $1,000.

As I understand it that would give me the set up I need for three additional hook-ups which, in my case, would cover my top link, side link and a grapple or 4n1 bucket in the front. It also includes three controls for those three devices (or whatever else I might use).

While I like all of that the $1,000 is a bit of a stumbling block. What is the consensus here about using the Power Beyond? Has anyone else heard about the downside of doing so?

chevy · Oct 26, 2004

Gary my Son-in-laws dad has a 990 that has the control valve for the rear hydraulics connected to the power beyond connections. It was dealer installed & works great. They have had the tractor 4 years.

Jim_Fisher · Oct 26, 2004

Gary,

( I spoke with my Deere guy today and got quite a revelation. He told me that I should NOT hook up my TCC top & tilt to my Power Beyond. He explained that doing so creates a situation wherein the 3PH and T&T will then be using the same continuous feed. Apparently, the Power Beyond is designed for continuous feed operations (like the backhoe) only. )

I believe that your dealer is correct in what he says and is being appropriately cautious.

Using hydraulics generates heat. My understanding of the issue is that sending hot fluid through the rockshaft valve may cause premature failure. That's why the return line on your 47 backhoe is routed to dedicated return fitting rather than through the rockshaft circuit.

I use three implements on my tractor that require power beyond.

The 48 backhoe is routed to the return line provided. The rockshaft is of no use anyway, once the backhoe has been attached.

The Shaver post driver requires that the return be routed directly to the sump without any restriction. I remove the fill plug and pipe the return directly to the sump. I feed the rockshaft with a hose from the third SCV. I place the position control lever in the up position and then raise the three point hitch with the third SCV control.

The three point wood splitter return is routed back to the rockshaft feed. Since the implement needs to run at rated speed (2700 rpm), the hydraulic oil cooler is running at full capacity and the tractor is stationary so the hydrostatic transmission doesn't add appreciably to the heat rise. I have yet to encounter any excess heat issues in the six or so cords of wood that I have split, some of which was done in July and August. Not sure what the long term effects will be but I'm willing to take the chance given the convenience of being able to roll a heavy log onto the splitter and use the three point to lift it. I can repair a rockshaft valve a lot easier and cheaper than I can repair my back.

I don't know if I would take the chance while using a ground engaging implement, such as a box scraper, which would obviously work the hydrostatic transmission and build heat rather quickly.

Gary_in_Indiana · Oct 27, 2004

Jim,

Thank you for your clear and easily understandable explanation. I'm not going to take the chance using the power beyond after reading it and will spend the extra bucks to do it the right way with the 3rd, 4th and 5th SCV from Deere.

BGL990 · Oct 29, 2004

I'm a little confused as to why your dealer said not to connect to the power beyond /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I plan to do just that on my 990, probably next summer. My understanding is that the power beyond kit simply taps into the hydraulic 'loop' either before or after the 3pt controls (not sure which). If you aren't using it, a short jumper hose connects the two quick connects and everything works like before the kit was installed.

If you do use the power beyond ports, an open center valve bank is connected to the quick connects in place of the jumper hose. Everything still works normally except that the external valve bank now has hydraulic flow to work with. Now, you might not be able to raise the 3pt and use a function on the external valve bank at the same time, or if you do things might be very slow. Just like trying to lift and curl the FEL on most CUT's at the same time usually results in very slow movement or one function "bottoming out" before the other starts to move.

I don't, however, see any difference between running rear T&T functions and running a backhoe or anything else off the power beyond outlets. Personally, I plan to get a valve bank with at least 5, maybe 6 valves - for T&T, at least two more rear connections, and at least one to the front of the loader for a grapple. 99% of the time the external valve bank has no spools shifted and acts just like the loopback hose you would otherwise need. There should be no interference with the 3pt operation and no additional heat build up as long as you choose a valve bank rated at or above the full flow rate of your tractor's hydraulic system.

Someone correct me if I'm out to lunch, but I thought this was how even the additional factory SCV's essentially work, even if they don't have hoses running to the rear power beyond connectors.

I for one am going to try it anyway since I can add 6 extra valves with hoses, connectors, etc. for probably about $1000 CAD - I doubt factory SCV's could come anywhere close to that price.
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Gary_in_Indiana · Oct 30, 2004

"I for one am going to try it anyway since I can add 6 extra valves with hoses, connectors, etc. for probably about $1000 CAD - I doubt factory SCV's could come anywhere close to that price." 

As I said, I was quoted ~$1000 US for the third, fourth & fifth SCV parts which would give me three connections at the rear as well as three controls on or at the right fender. I don't know the current exchange rate, but I'd guess that might be around $1350 CAD.

I don't know for what I'd use SIX additional SCV's! I have a FEL that takes my first two. I'm adding TCC's top & tilt so that takes two more (the third & fourth). I'd like to add a 4n1 bucket which would take one more (my fifth SCV).

I can't imagine where/how or why I'd have a need for three more anyhow. If I add a front snow blade it would be in place of my 4n1 bucket so I'd have SCV for for the power angle function. If I add a snow blower with a hydraulic chute, I'd be able to disconnect my 4n1 line and use those connections.

If I REALLY stretch, I could imagine using a box blade with hydraulic scarifiers AND wanted to use it while using my 4n1 bucket, THEN I could use a sixth SCV. As I sincerely don't anticipate EVER having that box blade with this machine, I think a total of five SCV's will be enough. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BGL990 · Oct 30, 2004

I might not use 6 either, but the price difference between a bank of 5 and a bank of 6 is minimal compared to the whole price of doing it, so why not.

Now, let's see:
1. Top
2. Tilt
3. Other side tilt (you never know ... )
4. Rear blade angle
5. Front remote for rapple
6. Extra front remote in case I make a tiltable tree shear and need 2 in the front /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Plus of course the two already used for the FEL, so that would be eight altogether.

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