Our Dependencies

Kiohio · Jan 6, 2003

This was written as a response to rancar(100 years post) but, by the time I was done I was afraid I would have hi-jacked his post sooo I started a new one!
It is nice to see an a person with an upbeat outlook but.....I don't think it will go that way. We (humans) as a whole are so self-serving and greedy that there is almost no-way we can keep from killing each other off in one way or the other. Just look at Enron etc. We are so greedy we would lie/cheat/steal just to get ahead. Even if it means that the other guy will starve to death. I don't know if anybody realizes how much we depend on China for our well-being but it is staggering. Did you know that we depend on them for 80% of the WORLDS sweet potatos?. I don't like sweet potatos but I'd think we could grow them here! I don't think there is a childs toy out there made anywhere but China. Are we going to stop? NO! Why not? because people are getting rich off of importing all of that stuff and we are to lazy to grow them ourselves. We are in a global economy and to me that's really not progress. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it myself either. He!! I sell South Korean tractors but, at least their country is semi-friends with us. Ya' know the only reason any country is friends with us is because we are the ultimate consumers with an endless supply of money!

Sorry for the long post but I just had to get that off of my chest.

To give yourself a little wake-up call take a look at the stuff you have around your home/office, etc and see where it is made.....it WILL surprise you!!

Maybe we could report back with the things that shock you the most.

KO

rancar · Jan 6, 2003

KO -- thanks kindly for your consideration but in a way this post of yours is related somewhat to the 100 years post. The points you raise are good and accurate enough. I fully agree to the point I'll suggest another trend that'll increasingly become evident over the next 100 years.

o U.S. and Western European dominance and leadership in world wide economic growth and geopolitics will diminish yielding ascendancy to Far Eastern leadership (ie, China).

Wingnut · Jan 6, 2003

I was a little shocked when I looked at the box of the new grill I brought home on Saturday and discovered that the beauty was "Made in China" .... but I'll have to disagree with you anyway.
We import more and more nowadays ... but does that really change us? Recall that all the things that you note as being made in China ... were formerly "Made in Korea" or "Made in Thailand" or, before that, "Made in Japan". Each came from an impoverished background, learned from us and became consumer nations themselves ... and lost their place to another nation while maintaining a great measure of their earned affluence.
While the current "mood" of the Chinese leaders is still mostly socialist/communist ... I very much doubt that it will be able to continue so .... as you pointed out ... human nature. People who earn a good living are very loathe to hand it over ... and just look as the news dribbling out of China ... cars, televisions, internet access.
I'm a bit more optimistic and I think that, barring an all-out attack from the nutcases in the mideast on every centre of affluence (and assuming that they could win anything except turning the mideast to glass), we're going to see consumism become a lot more widespread than just the US.

cowboydoc · Jan 6, 2003

I couldn't agree with you more. The problem is that our mfg. base is becoming obsolete. We send all of our mfg. and thus our mfg. to other countries. We become reliant of them for these products and in the process we build them up into developed countries. I think in the next 100 years you will most definitely see the fall of the US. We can't keep sending all of our jobs and mfg. overseas and still maintain. Our govt. keeps getting bigger and bigger and corp. getting keep getting bigger and bigger. It will change. All great nations do.

saw_dust · Jan 6, 2003

<font color=blue>I don't know if anybody realizes how much we depend on China for our well-being but it is staggering.</font color=blue>
I went to my local <font color=red>Iron Age Shoe Store</font color=red> today to buy some safety toe work boots,the particular ones I use the clerk said it would be March before the shoes arrive,she said"it is a supplier problem" I said the shoes are coming from China? And she said yes,I said they should make the shoes here in the states.I hope we do not have to order any American Flags.

Bird · Jan 6, 2003

Sounds like a pessimistic view, Richard. And unfortunately, exactly my own opinion./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

em14 · Jan 6, 2003

I agree with cowboydoc ... I see this nation heading toward a "Service" only industry ... and no longer a Mfg industry that made it what it was until now .. this is scarey ... just think what happens when I do your Laundry and you do mine ... now what ..
Leo

Anonymous Poster · Jan 6, 2003

Hi,

Guess I'm the odd ball...

But in some ways our giving business to those poorer countries is kind of a helping hand, a "foreign aid" program that actually gives us something in return, rather than mostly dumping cash in a one-way stream.

Unfortunately, it is also a way for us to export polution of the environmental type...let those countries make things for us, and polute their environment doing it...

Personally, I don't complain about the imports...they help raise my standard of living. I can buy three servicable 12 inch wood working clamps for the price of one make here or in Europe...etc, etc.

My guess is if we closed our borders and just made everything here, we would all be a lot poorer for it.

I also think this thread may be stretching the limits of the forum.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Bill in Pgh, PA

Anonymous Poster · Jan 6, 2003

Bill: Feel like I am following you around TBN! Buying overseas is a way to keep the standard of living up in the US (from where it would be otherwise) by ripping off the world. We send them money (ALL money you and I use and work for is created by the banking system when someone borrows something-the details are tooooo long to explain in a post like this) which "costs" nothing to produce and they send us Kiotis, Kubotas, Daedongs etc. which do cost work and labor to produce. Its sort of like you could write checks on your checking account and never have to cash them with anything of real value. The problem is that the US is becoming SO soft from this that we are unwilling to act in our own self defense. Allowing Pakistan, N. Korea, etc to have nukes is insane for example. Without both military superiority AND THE WILLINGNESS TO USE IT we are doomed and can't continue this. Secondly, has to do with long term cycles of struggle, supremacy, softness, decay and collapse. The Romans went through it. So are we. So . . . enjoy life, enjoy your tractor, maximize your yield of pleasure while minimizing the cost in pain (if I may quote from Mr. Freud). Take care-havta go-dinner ready. John

RobertN · Jan 6, 2003

I've seen the little stick on flags, and flag part plates ect with "made in China" on them.

It will be tough; what happens when all the manufacturing is elsewhere?

I mentioned on this forum before how my Harley would not move if I took off the import parts(I have, to a large extent). Let's see... First the Showa forks, and then shocks. Then, the Keihin Carb. Ok, now it's sitting on the garage floor, and we haven't even started yet... Take the ignition, and those Brazilian made rear wheel bearings. Mine is an '84, early EVO with chain drive. Try to find a US chain... I love my bike, but...

BTW, I used to wear those ESD steel toe made in China Iron Age shoes at the last company I worked at.

If you took away even half the imports, Kmart, Wal Mart, Target, and a lot of others would go under faster than you could blink your eye.