Our Telephone Line Saga

Farwell · Jun 19, 2005

It is a real pain and expensive but if you ever have to pull a new line to up your amperage you will be real happy you laid in the pipe. Wish I had my AC in conduit to my pole barn so I could re-wire the feed line. If I want to upgrade I will have to trench through my driveway, under a natural gas line, dig under a retaining wall and tunnel under about 18 feet of a cement slab.
I lived in California for quite a while and thought that the phone company was responsible for all of the wiring to the building and you were responsible for everything inside the building. I lived in an older housing track and everything was still over head, that might be the difference.

Varmintmist · Jun 20, 2005

Couple of thoughts before you call the PUC.

If the line was 8 in then you are in the right, if it was 12 then you should have called one call.

Specs for a DUG line are 18-24, not a plowed line. Plowing is the cheap easy way to get a line in, not the best way.

You want conduit because we have rocks and frost here. Think its a PITA now? Wait till you have a few holes in the front yard after trying to fix the line. Direct burial is OK, conduit is good.

Conduit is required for under driveway runs. You can direct bury up to the side of the drive, but you conduit under it. Normally 4 in sced 80. Thats a bit overkill but it will hold anything that you decide to run over the drive with.

Most phone co's dont have to run more than X feet without you paying for it. 800-1000 ft is pretty standared. It is your job to get any right of ways for the drop.

You think 2 in conduit is to big for that itty bitty 1/2 in cable? Try pulling through 500 feet of it sometime with 5 bends. The specs call for 2 in, with sweeps and pull ROPE. They dont have to give you service if you put in anything else or put kite string in it instead of a rope.

IF you direct bury, AND use sand as per spec, under and over, you dont need conduit. The cost with manpower and machine time will be about the same. Of course contractors and homeowners want to toss the wire in a rock filled trench because its cheaper. When the service gets messed up it the phone companies fault so its OK to cheese out on the cost of doing it right.

The splices will work. They are not a box in the ground with a little tape on them. They are filled connectors surrounded by encapsulant in a pvc sleeve. Good for at least 15 years.

Odds are that the plow will put it down 8-12 inches again. It will probably be the same plow.

That said, they plowed it in, they get to fix it.

All my stuff is in conduit.

HuckBB62 · Jun 20, 2005

( Couple of thoughts before you call the PUC.

If the line was 8 in then you are in the right, if it was 12 then you should have called one call.

Specs for a DUG line are 18-24, not a plowed line. Plowing is the cheap easy way to get a line in, not the best way.

You want conduit because we have rocks and frost here. Think its a PITA now? Wait till you have a few holes in the front yard after trying to fix the line. Direct burial is OK, conduit is good.

Conduit is required for under driveway runs. You can direct bury up to the side of the drive, but you conduit under it. Normally 4 in sced 80. Thats a bit overkill but it will hold anything that you decide to run over the drive with.

Most phone co's dont have to run more than X feet without you paying for it. 800-1000 ft is pretty standared. It is your job to get any right of ways for the drop.

You think 2 in conduit is to big for that itty bitty 1/2 in cable? Try pulling through 500 feet of it sometime with 5 bends. The specs call for 2 in, with sweeps and pull ROPE. They dont have to give you service if you put in anything else or put kite string in it instead of a rope.

IF you direct bury, AND use sand as per spec, under and over, you dont need conduit. The cost with manpower and machine time will be about the same. Of course contractors and homeowners want to toss the wire in a rock filled trench because its cheaper. When the service gets messed up it the phone companies fault so its OK to cheese out on the cost of doing it right.

The splices will work. They are not a box in the ground with a little tape on them. They are filled connectors surrounded by encapsulant in a pvc sleeve. Good for at least 15 years.

Odds are that the plow will put it down 8-12 inches again. It will probably be the same plow.

That said, they plowed it in, they get to fix it.

All my stuff is in conduit. )

Pulled a ton of wire. I've got two 500' pulls that I had to do on my property so I know exactly what you're getting at. A 2" conduit for com cable is just silly.

Varmintmist · Jun 20, 2005

Nah.

You want silly, you ought to see the silly things people expect us to pull through. Trenches that you wouldnt walk for fear of breaking a leg on the rock, not a bucket of sand in sight. 1/2 in whistle tubing, buried. Garden hose, buried. Thread for a pull string, no pull string ect ect.

At the moment a telephone drop to your house is about 1/2 inch. Plastic sheath over aluminum covering 6 twisted copper pairs.
Do you know what it will be in 10 years? I dont. It has made 4 changes since I have been in this work. It has varied from a 2 pair that was about 1/4 in round to a composite drop that was 1 1/4th in wide and 1/2 deep. They might be pulling a composite fiber/twisted pair/coax line in next year. You want to pay for the conduit now or pay for a new trench and conduit later and wait for service?

Do it right, you do it once.

BTW, every PUC complaint costs the local shop money. If the complaint is right or wrong, doesnt matter. That comes directly out of the maintenance budget. That means when you dont have dial tone in October, the guys will not be allowed to work OT. You wont hurt the phone company by calling the PUC. They just wont spend money later.

If you have a legit complaint, by all means call. If you want to play get even, it wont affect the company, just the customers.

Nasty135 · Jun 20, 2005

drm, Along with the PUC info, Let the phone co. know that someone in your home has a medical condition and that the service your paying for is imperitive and it must be secure (buried to the specific depth).

Since it wasn't done right the first time, Tell the supervisor that this is a prime example of PONC(price of non conformance) That should stop him dead in his tracks. The Phone factory as we call it preached this fertilizer to us for years then they contract out OUR work and they get what they pay for !!! Turns right around to bite them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Make them do it right and thats that...

Oh and BTW a splice will be fine as long as its done by a qualified tech.

Feel free to PM me if you want...

Varmintmist · Jun 21, 2005

( The Phone factory as we call it preached this fertilizer to us for years then they contract out OUR work and they get what they pay for !!! )

THAT is a fact.

drm · Jun 21, 2005

Varmintmist,

Thanks for the reply. I am slow in getting responses back since I have been out the last few days. This is in response to your first reply to me.

I truly want to get the line repaired correctly, within a reasonable cost, but do not want to be taken. If you do not mind I have several questions on your response.

First, we did not plow more than 12” deep. The line was 8” to 10” deep where it was plowed up. Some areas were deeper than we plowed so I could not tell how deep.

I have not had problems in the past with direct buried lines but I had less than 100 feet not 1200. I can see how the frost heave and rock issue can be a concern.

The original install runs under my gravel driveway and is not in conduit. It was plowed in so I would not think it is very deep. Should I eave it as is or put in conduit? I may be paving the road in the future.

I was “charged” for it at what was a per foot rate since it was over 500’. The entire run is on my property so I do not believe that the ROW is an issue.

I’m not trying to do the work cheaply; I do want it done correctly. My mistake was that I believed that the phone co. was giving me good information. I trusted their expertise. BUT, since I paid for the installation I feel that it should have been done correctly the first time. Why should I have to correct something that I have already paid for? When I questioned the plowed in line I was emphatically told that it would be as good as a trenched and buried line. It would be at least 18” deep. The contractor who plowed the line stated, with the local phone co super present that there was no way that it could be put in less than 18” deep with the equipment they use. Then how did we plow up the line & measure it to be 8” deep at the edge of the dirt were it was sticking out of an untouched area of soil? Not possible.

All that said. I want it right & feel that there should be some compromise. You mentioned sand which by the way no one ever mentioned using sand as a back fill to encapsulate the line when a trenched line was being discussed. I feel that if sand or conduit is required that I also would prefer conduit but I am not going to foot the entire bill myself. I would pay for the conduit but not the trench. Otherwise they can plow it again every time it breaks.

For 900’ with no bends, just a mild hill in the middle what size would you recommend? Can you slightly bend the straight pipe? Seems that 2” would but not 4” so how do you follow grade with 4”? The “top” of the drive is 30’-40’ higher than the bottom in 300’ of length.

As far as the splice, they were talking about a buried splice or a pedestal box in the ground flush with the top of the soil. Which is better? They were leaning to the pedestal. Can it support the weight of a full size tractor?

Thanks for all of the good info. Buy the way I have not made any calls at this point. Still looking to get the facts and rights sorted out.

…Derek

drm · Jun 21, 2005

Nasty,

My 5 year old son has asthma. My 2 year old spent the first 9 mo of his life on a heart beat and respiration monitor 24 hours a day. And my wife is in the med business where minutes are a mater of life & death. This is why even with three cell phones between us (one dedicated for her work) we wanted two land lines. One land line is always available for emergencies.

The super seemed only concerned with what the contractor would do as a minimum. Originally the entire line was to be reinstalled. When the contractor got involved he kept cutting back on the amount of replacement. They were going to put a splice in the field that was being plowed at one point till I put my foot down. Now they will only replace the line that is in the field. The 50 to the pole at the road will not be replaced. Why not at that point? They are 50’ from the pole.

I thank all you guys for the good info. I will be considering my options then ask for a meeting with the local super, without the contractor.

…Derek

SailorBob · Jun 21, 2005

When we built our house 3 years ago the local phone company (Bellsouth) ran our cable in the group with some kind of Ditch Witch type trenching tool. While they did not charge me with any installation cost I was concrened that it was not deep enough. Interestingly enough just last week after tropical storm Arlene the cable popped out of the ground on my dirt driveway. I would guess that from grading my driveway with the box blade that I may have lowered the road bed a few inches but not 18". I am not sure how to proceed with them either. I would guess that the run is about 200 feet.

Nasty135 · Jun 21, 2005

drm, Well the best advice I can give at this point is what is called a presidential appeal.. That is when you start calling up the ladder from sup to manager to district and finally prez of that region...Using diplomacy of course(Ask them how they would feel if it was his phone line and being so high up in an organization and couldn't even get his job done right?)
When I was an outside tech and my pager went off (cell phones now of course) I'd call in, and my sup would actually take me off a job to go soothe some feathers and complete a job lets say not done to a customers satisfaction, But we won't go there... The point is the sqeaky wheel gets the grease. Good Luck