Outbuilding Foundation

[brownsl]

I recently received a quote for a 52' x 32' pole barn. The one thing that concerns me about a pole barn is that the wood contacts the ground. Even though it is pressure-treated. So, I had them give me a quote for the same building using a traditional foundation and framing. The pole barn wold use 6" x 6" posts while the traditional construction would use 2" x 6" for the framing. What surprised me is that the traditional approach would cost about $2,000 more but I would save about $2,000 when insulating.

With the costs being approximately equivalent I am unsure which method to use. The pole barn seems like it would be a stronger structure but I like the idea of the wood not touching the ground with the traditional approach. Plus the barn would be built-up as the ground is not level so with a concrete slab I would not have to worry about frost heave with the traditional foundation.

I was wondering if anybody has additional thoughts on which method would be superior?

Thanks.

 

[inveresk]

You're right that it's not good practice to have timber in contact with the ground but you don't have to. It would be simple enough, and a code requirement here, to have concrete pad foundations below the frost line and sonotube concrete stubs to lift the poles a minimum of 8" above ground level.

 

[LD1]

How is it 2k cheaper to insulate????

That has me confused.

Pole barns are built everyday with posts in the ground. Not that big of deal. As to which method is better???????There are pros and cons to both.

With 6x6's, you will have a stronger structure IMO. But with as far as wood touching ground, keep in mind that even with a foundation and 2x6 walls, you still have a wood "sill" plate across the top of the foundation. And concrete retains moisture as well. That is why any wood that touches concrete has to be treated also.

So the debate really is, a PT 2x8 across the top of a block foundation, or PT 6x6 in the ground.

I have seen successes and failures both ways.

I like the pole method myself just for ease of construction. But I still dont understand how that way is 2k more to insulate. The building is still the same size right???

 

[brownsl]

You're right that it's not good practice to have timber in contact with the ground but you don't have to. It would be simple enough, and a code requirement here, to have concrete pad foundations below the frost line and sonotube concrete stubs to lift the poles a minimum of 8" above ground level.

I do not believe here the concrete pad would go below the frost line. They would put the skirt board around the perimeter, back fill it with gravel, then pour the last four inches for the slab.

 

[brownsl]

How is it 2k cheaper to insulate????

That has me confused.

Pole barns are built everyday with posts in the ground. Not that big of deal. As to which method is better???????There are pros and cons to both.

With 6x6's, you will have a stronger structure IMO. But with as far as wood touching ground, keep in mind that even with a foundation and 2x6 walls, you still have a wood "sill" plate across the top of the foundation. And concrete retains moisture as well. That is why any wood that touches concrete has to be treated also.

So the debate really is, a PT 2x8 across the top of a block foundation, or PT 6x6 in the ground.

I have seen successes and failures both ways.

I like the pole method myself just for ease of construction. But I still dont understand how that way is 2k more to insulate. The building is still the same size right???

The extra $2,000 for insulating the pole barn is because they have to frame between the posts to insulate out to the posts. So, the extra $2,000 is not in the insulation but in additional framing for the insulation.

 

[SARG]

Here's a new idea by Fingerlakes Construction that are precast concrete support columns. Look like they might add a few years to the structure........


Fingerlakes Construction Co., Inc

 

[framer]

What surprises me the price of only $2,000 differents from pole to foundation
to 2x6 walls and frost proof footins. Usually pole typ buildings are done for
bigger savings.There is a thread about plastic covers for post on here that good help.There are couple different types of treated post make sure they use for
buried not contact.

 

[jcims]

Here's a new idea by Fingerlakes Construction that are precast concrete support columns. Look like they might add a few years to the structure........


Fingerlakes Construction Co., Inc

Not sure if it's the same vendor, but a fellow TBNer used those columns for a recent build about 50 miles east of me in Ohio. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/175911-squaring-24-x-32-building.html#post2049247 I'm thinking about using same for a building i'm planning.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Here is how mine is built, not the best picture but there is a 2' wall on top of a footing that is below the frost line. All the posts sit on 1/4" steel brackets that are bolted to the concrete, grade will be 1' below the top of that wall and the concrete floor inside is 1' below the top of that wall (at grade). There are openings in the concrete wall for the doors on the front and back. The reason I did this is because all of the wood (except the trusses) are milled from Poplar, Locust and Ash that are from the timber 50' away from the building. I also did this because I cannot stand when water finds it's way in when grade is near the floor height and I don't like wood rotting.

I also have a good friend who is owns a large concrete business, hence the concrete overkill on it.

Here is a better picture of the design:

 

[bp fick]

The plate on conventional 2x6 framing must indeed be Pressure Treated, but it can be installed with a rolled foam sill seal. Or, even cellotex or expansion joint material. All these seal and do provide a buffer between the plate and concrete. Just something to put into the equation.

I've built both ways. I don't have an preference. In some areas, local Mennonite crews can conventionally frame as fast and inexpensively as pole barn. Both work and work well, just differently.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I used the heavy duty pressure treated that's made to go in water, and I'm not going to worry about it. The posts in the ground helps make the whole structure a lot stronger. THere are connectors you can put in concrete, and keep the posts above ground if you want. These are used a lot on commercial post frame buildings that have traditional foundations. Foundation will cost more for this type of construction.

 

[milkman636]

For even money the concrete foundation with 2x6 wall construction would be a clear choice for me. From dabbling in real estate, I know that opting for the concrete foundation and stud walls would be adding more value to your property for the same investment.

Post construction does work just fine though. I personnaly have done three barns in the last 15 years using post construction, and all three are still perfectly fine. I would be willing to bet that the posts probably look close to as good as the day I buried them. All the posts are set 4 feet below grade on top of a 12" thick, 18" diameter concrete footings. Buried wood won't outlast concrete, but it may outlast the builder.

 

[SPIKER]

You may also consider that there are pressure treated laminated posts that are far superior to standard posts. no warp-age treated al way through as well as they are treated then glue laminated into the 5.5 x 5.5 posts and they can be made with PT sections below grade and switched to std lumber above grade.

My construction 10 yrs ago was standard pole barn with PT in-ground & someday I hope to get concrete in there...

Mark