Outdoor barn light question

[joshuabardwell]

How much light are you looking for? If you only want enough to keep from stumbling, it's hard to beat the CFL because the initial cost is so low. I think the sodium lights can give you a lot more light but isn't the cost of the fixture and bulb a lot higher? I have cheap Menards CFLs and they've been working great for several years.

CFL is a poor choice for motion lights. As I understand it, the ballast is rated for a certain number of on/off cycles, and the bulb itself is rated for a certain number of hours of use due to wearing out the phosphorescent lining of the tube. If you put a CFL on a motion light, the constant on/off/on again runs through the ballast's life quickly and the bulb wears out too fast to make it economical.

Wikipedia says:

The life of a CFL is significantly shorter if it is turned on and off frequently. In the case of a 5-minute on/off cycle the lifespan of some CFLs may be reduced to that of incandescent light bulbs. The U.S. Energy Star program suggests that fluorescent lamps be left on when leaving a room for less than 15 minutes to mitigate this problem.

 

[KennyG]

CFL is a poor choice for motion lights. As I understand it, the ballast is rated for a certain number of on/off cycles, and the bulb itself is rated for a certain number of hours of use due to wearing out the phosphorescent lining of the tube. If you put a CFL on a motion light, the constant on/off/on again runs through the ballast's life quickly and the bulb wears out too fast to make it economical.

That's a valid point. Mine are dusk to dawn so the CFL works great. Turns on once and off once a day. I have another light that is a motion sensor by the driveway. I just put cheap incadenscent floodlights in it because it generally isn't on more than 15 minutes a day.

 

[grsthegreat]

Ive installed 100's of these light over the past 30 years as an electrician. Here are my thoughts....for what its worth.

1. If the light is on dawn to dusk, and its at a barn that attracts bugs (horses,cows,etc) you cant beat High Pressure Sodium (Have never used low pressure sodium...only high pressure sodium). The yellow light tends to cut back on the bug problems big time. I even use them on my main barn front exterior light. Works here at -40F. but takes several minutes to come fully bright. CANT be used as motion light. My barn light was installed 10 years ago...and the lamp works every night from dusk till 10PM (on timer).... and i have never changed the lamp.

2. Ill never recommend LED lighting as the initial costs will never be reimbursed over the years in energy saved or supposed life expectancy of lamps. I have serious doubts as to the claimed life exp of these light fixtures. One of the new LED highway light that was installed last year has burnt out by my house....less than a year. I did a bid to swap out a storage facilities security lights from 250 watt HPS to LED. we did the calcs, and it would have taken the owner 108 years to recoup his costs. needless to say, i didnt get the job.

3. They do make some nice florescent yard lights. very bright. But they wont work if it gets too cold. CFL's can take several minutes to come fully bright in cold weather also.

4. DONT use Halogen. the fixtures are inexpensive, but the run costs will bankrupt you.

5. I have Metal Halide lights in the back side of my barn and on the arena. I LOVE the bright white light, but MAN do they attract the bugs. Like a magnet. Also cannot be used motion lights and take a few minutes to become fully bright.


Hope this helps

 

[BeezFun]

1. The yellow light tends to cut back on the bug problems big time. I even use them on my main barn front exterior light. Works here at -40F. but takes several minutes to come fully bright.

That could be the deciding factor, didn't know it cut down on bugs. We've got horses and goats, so anything that cuts down on bugs is important. I might even think of putting one fixture in the barn instead of using lots of smaller fluorescents.

2. Ill never recommend LED lighting as the initial costs will never be reimbursed over the years in energy saved or supposed life expectancy of lamps. I have serious doubts as to the claimed life exp of these light fixtures.

agree completely

5. I have Metal Halide lights in the back side of my barn and on the arena. I LOVE the bright white light, but MAN do they attract the bugs. Like a magnet. Also cannot be used motion lights and take a few minutes to become fully bright.

I think I'll have my wife go look at one of the sodium lights to be sure she'll go for the color. I don't want to install something and have to take it out because it's the wrong color.

 

[amigauser]

I have had a light at the peak of my pole barn for about 16 years now. Started with a 175 watt mercury vapor light which lasted about 5 years. Replaced it with a HP sodium, which was cheaper to operate and I liked the yellow tint, especially in the snow. It lasted 3-4 years. Then I went with the 200 watt equivalent CFL fixture, which was a disappointment. The sensor lasted less than a year, and the bulb six months after it. So I gutted that fixture, took out the transformer that ran that big bulb and put a new sensor in wired direct to the socket. Put a run of the mill cheap 100 watt equiv CFL in it and its been trouble free for years now. The really cold weather affects the light output but it still comes on every night. I have to borrow an extension ladder to deal with this fixture so the less time spent maintaining the better. I am willing to give LEDs a few more years to become reasonable, the same way it took CFLs.

I did something similar at my house with CFL's and it works well and is cheap to run. You can even use an old incandescent light with a sensor and just add the CFL bulb. Mine lights fine down to zero degrees. LED's are definitely the future and I will look at them once my current setup wears out.

 

[LD1]

IMO, they are all poor choices.

LED's cost too much
Halogens are expensiver to operate
CFL's, just plain suck
And sodium light is too yellow-orange to even look good

If it were me (and I just put up a security light last year), I'd look at either metal halide or mercury vapor.

The mercury fixtures are getting harder to find, but have 3x's to 4x's the bulb life as metal halide, and similar lighting characteristics.

 

[grsthegreat]

IMO, they are all poor choices.

LED's cost too much
Halogens are expensiver to operate
CFL's, just plain suck
And sodium light is too yellow-orange to even look good

If it were me (and I just put up a security light last year), I'd look at either metal halide or mercury vapor.

The mercury fixtures are getting harder to find, but have 3x's to 4x's the bulb life as metal halide, and similar lighting characteristics.

while the light is a little orange, overall it doesnt look to bad. It lights up the area great...and keeps down flying bugs.

 

[ultrarunner]

Interesting topic...

I've noticed the city is replacing the streetlights with LED... the current ones were replaced about 20 years ago... The bean counters are predicting huge savings.

Also, lots of filling stations are doing the same. Last night I filled up late and really liked the LED lighting.

 

[schweizer]

I live off the grid so that eliminates the HPS, halogen, and metal halide lights. True, LED lights are expensive, but for my barn they were the only choice (energy-wise) and they turn on instantly.

 

[BeezFun]

Let us know what you decide to purchase.

I decided to go with Metal Halide. My wife looked at sodium, even though I think they're the best technical choice she didn't like the color. I'm going to put one area light at each end and two wall mounted units on each of the sides. Thanks for all suggestions and discussion.

 

[jim44]

Excellent choice. I have used mercury vapor, and they were ok, but you can't get them any more. Then, I tried CFLs and they did very well for about 2 weeks. I don't like yellow light, so the next try was metal halide. Excellent white light and still going strong after about 3 years. The only major bad thing I found in reading about them was that they supposedly make frogs turn gay or some such. Can't really say I noticed anything in that regard, though.

 

[LD1]

You can still get mercury if you know where to look.

 

[oosik]

Hmmm - didn't realize there were that many choices. I have the standard 'ol yard light on top of the last power pole in the yard. Its mercury vapor, comes on at dusk - goes off in the am. Been there for 32 years, no maintenance and still going strong.

 

[the old grind]

LEDs have one quality about them that gets little mention: 'brightness-life' to coin a term. To explain: We have a hand-held LED 'trouble light' with hook and magnet and the now-common diet of 3 batteries. Every other 'on' click lights all or about half the LEDs. As bright as they are, we use the half-bright mode as a rule to save battery life. It hadn't taken long to see that in full-on mode the seldom used LEDs are quite noticeably brighter than those always on.

Embracing the 'new is better' marketing mentality is one thing, but who among us has had LEDs shining long enough to give us a real idea of their service life. There are examples of every type of bulb lasting several times longer than ever expected, and none of the reports here seem exaggerated to me. I've had a few surprise too, over time, but where are the anecdotes of decades of unfaltering illumination from LEDs??? Will they last long enough for the energy savings to offset their cost. (Not cheap to buy, you say?)

My grandpa once told me, "Nothing lasts forever, including balloons and a good time." I wonder how long it will take to put LEDs' longevity in proper perspective among the other options.

As for color, I'm not fond of the yellowish light of the 2 sodium types, but I don't spend hours gazing at my empty yard at night. Yellow CFL 'bug' lights seem somehow limited to 60w equivalent, but light is light and the two on my garage don't draw as many bugs in an hour as the former incandescents did in mere minutes. (I'm not reading the Sunday funnies under them.) The guy a the DIY store says 'x' duplicates sunlight but it looks awfully 'cool' to me, and I haven't taken the plunge yet.

Anyway, bugs see only limited wavelength spectra compared to us, and they're among the longer ones. Anyone who's used sodium and 'cooler' color temp lights at the same time should know which are magnets to them. That matters to me, and I'm willing to live with a 'warmer' old-school torch-like cast to see less of them. btw: you may be surprised at how little light is needed to center a 'coon in the cross-hairs when it's scouting a barn for an entry to a 'nesting site'. Guess I'll be looking further into HP vs LP sodium, so thanks for the extra input, folks. :thumbsup:

 

[Scooby074]

Like everything in life there are varying qualities of LED's at various prices.

Ive heard of people having short life cycles out of some LED bulbs, but in almost every case its some cheaper "off" brand, like the replacement bulbs at Walmart for like $7.00!

Ive been using a Phillips 8W LED For about 3 years now. Dusk to dawn every day. Keeps on ticking and doesnt attract bugs as a nice bonus! However it wasnt the cheapest LED on the shelf at over $30 when I bought it. Like a lot of things, you get what you pay for. Will it last 10 more years? Ill update this thread 10 years from now and let you know

 

[SPIKER]

Hi Guys:

Lots of good info some not as good but couple items to think about. I know there are a lot of our TBN members outside the good ole EPA-****-Mandated USA. Inside USA borders "OUTSIDE LIGHTING" the "Mercury" anything is pretty much GONE (since 2008) so if you are buying a NEW fixture make sure it can have more than 1 kind of bulb installed. The old Merc Vapor fixtures usually will only run a Metal Halide or HPS (High Pressure Sodium) bulb for a few weeks and the bulb or ballast will be done if it works at all. The slightly more modern ones will run one longer but the end result will typically be the same bulb or ballast will dies in short term when compared to it's normal operating life.

LED have come a long way, the costs also are coming down quite a lot in last 2 years. DIALIGHT has some really good stuff at about 2x cost of Merc/HPS fixture and bulb. It kind of equates to cost of fixture & bulb and one bulb replacement after the 1st ones dies in 20 years lol. YEP still pretty expensive but in 20 years you wont have to climb the ladder to change that bulb when your 98 years old...

LEDs are good that they are ON instantly in all weather too no warmup times (misnomer as they do have some warm up time on the High Output lamps) but very minimal compared to HPS/Met-hal. The Light from LEDs is also more of a harsh when looking at it with a poor penetration (not going to hook up a 3pt 75 feet away like old Merc/HPS will let you do.) This too is getting a bit better but not quite there yet. I call it Penetration or Reflected light that warms the area LEDs just dont have that they can/do shine like a spot light good right at what it is pointed at but 10feet away from it's pointing area it is not useable light. The Lenses they are installing onto NEW ones help this SOME but not 100% yet, still a compromise.

SO all that said it is best to match the Bulb/Ballast and Fixture overall to your application. Always on Dust to Dawn then the HPS is probably best bet, the Metal Halide is next (but will attract bugs and can be noisy but has more white bright light for tasks.) Mercury Vapor is extinct now (2008 was cutoff year for new) & replacement bulbs won't be available....

(Hey want a HOOT google Cleaning up Broken CFL Bulb and see how stupid GOV and EPA are.) This goes to the mandate to remove outside Mercury Vapor lighting and Mandating all INDOOR lighting switch to CLF (Mecury Vapor Florescence Lighting).

The Bulb Costs also should be looked at as each one has different life spans, the Merc Vapor lasted decades but the output of a OLD bulb was dramatically reduced over a NEW one after a year or so.

HPS/Metal-Halide also has similar issues that they last for very long time but wait a few years and output is much lower than NEW bulb.

Anyway I've got several LED Lights that are a few 4+years old still running but no where near quality available now.

Mark

 

[jcummins]

Excellent choice. I have used mercury vapor, and they were ok, but you can't get them any more. Then, I tried CFLs and they did very well for about 2 weeks. I don't like yellow light, so the next try was metal halide. Excellent white light and still going strong after about 3 years. The only major bad thing I found in reading about them was that they supposedly make frogs turn gay or some such. Can't really say I noticed anything in that regard, though.

Dusk-to-dawn Security Light 175 Watt Mercury Vapor 120v - Amazon.com

 

[grsthegreat]

home depot still sells mercury vapor light fixtures, and lamps for existing lights. But its sure a old technology