Over flow bottle

   / Over flow bottle #1  

Yanmar_1700

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
35
Location
Alva, Florida
Tractor
Yanmar 1700
I happen to glance down at my temp gauge and noticed my normal 170 degrees was 210 on my YM1700. I looked at the overflow botlle and it was at the same level. When it cooled down I checked the radiator which was missing about 1/2 a gallon. I found a small leak on the lower radiator hose and. My question is why didn't the water from the overflow go into the radiator when it went low? I check the overflow everytime I get on. I replaced the original radiator cap with one from NAPA which was rated at 7lbs. Do I have to prime the hose that goes from the overflow bottle for this to work? Do I need a special radiator cap?
 
   / Over flow bottle #2  
1700;

I would check and make sure you have a cap that has a double lip seal and also make sure your overflow bottle hose does not have a pinhole or too thin as it will collapse when warm. Other than that just a routine check of screen, 30/70 coolant mix - 70 75% water (this is critical especially on thermosiphon) and so on.

*****edit***** Totally missed the sentence about the hole in your lower hose....sorry as that whould create most of your problem.*****

Hope this is some help. Regards, Mark
 
   / Over flow bottle #3  
The hose leak would prevent the system from creating the vacuum needed to draw the coolant back into the radiator as it cooled down.
 
   / Over flow bottle #4  
Maybe enough leaked out of the lower hose that the water never had a chance to expand far enough to reach the overflow bottle?
 
   / Over flow bottle #6  
Danny, I keep hearing about 7 lb. caps from time to time. Do some Yanmars require 7 lb. caps, or is that just what some Japanese farmer happened to have handy?
 
   / Over flow bottle #7  
1700

I am not sure what temperature my 1700 would see before I installed gauges, but 170 to 210 sounds normal (depending on what you are doing). While mowing with a 5' finish mower, mine will run around 190 and when I get to the thick grass were it might lug for a second or two, it will jump up to 200-210. I have also found that the pitch (right or left) and what gear I mow in (lower in 2nd/hi and higher in 3rd/hi) will make a difference in the termperature as well. I had a post here in the past and was told the "idiot light" will come on around 235 (pretty sure that's what I was told).
Like Mark said above: I check the screen and radiator fins to make sure they are not clogged and check the water level every time I use the tractor. It has become habit; just like checking the motor oil.
 
   / Over flow bottle
  • Thread Starter
#8  
On the "Double Lip Seal". What would that be? Do you know a NAPA equivelent. By looking at my Rad Cap, what should it look like? I have read that I need a 7lb cap. What is the "lb" in reference to? I have been using straight distilled water with "Water Wetter" from Redline. Four capfulls per quart. Makes the water a pink color. No antifreeze.
 
   / Over flow bottle #9  
1700,
under your cap you should see one solid rubber seal, and under that one you should see one more........lbs represent the amount it takes for back pressure before it will vent . I have yet to try the water wetter, but heard it works well, so you should be fine on the coolant part. Down here I use 20/80 on thermosiphon and 30/70 on water pump models, but it seldom get in the teens.

regards, Mark
 
   / Over flow bottle #11  
Let me see if I can explain it better. A coolant recovery radiator cap should have two seals. If you look at the under side of the cap, you should see a spring loaded pad with rubber on it. That pad seals to the radiator down below where the overflow tube goes out of the radiator. The spring holds pressure in the coolant system. My original radiator cap for my YM1110D said 0.9 on it along with a bunch of Japanese. That is 0.9 bar or 0.9*ambient - ambient pressure is about 14.5psi, so 0.9*14.5=13psi. You should be using a 13psi cap.

The second seal is inside the top part of the radiator cap and seals on the lip of the radiator above where the overflow tube goes out of the radiator. That second or upper seal is missing on a cap not designed for an overflow bottle.

Here's how its supposed to work:
With engine cold, the spring is short and so the spring loaded pad does not seal below the overflow tube. But the upper seal is sealed on the lip above the overflow tube.

When the engine gets warm, the heat expands the spring to create a seal below the overflow tube. That spring and seal will push against pressure in the cooling system up to the rating on the cap - 13psi. Since the coolant actually expands a little when it gets up to temperature, some of the coolant pushes past the lower seal and goes into the overflow bottle, filling it to the "hot" mark.

When you shut down the engine, the coolant starts to cool, and the spring goes back to its cold length releasing the lower seal. As the coolant contracts with the lower temperature, it wants to draw air into the radiator. Since the upper seal is still sealed, the radiator draws coolant back in from the bottle, lowering the level in the overflow bottle to the "cold" mark.

The 13psi pressure will keep the coolant from boiling as it goes above 212 F. Thats how you can operate the tractor up to 240 F without boilover. If the coolant gets hot enough, the 13psi will not be enough pressure to keep the coolant from boiling, and you get a boil over - blowing steam from the radiator which goes through the overflow bottle. Also, if you shut down the engine while it is very hot, you can get some boiling in the engine block since there is no air flow through the radiator (and due to lack of circulation if a water pump system). That boiling will force steam out through the recovery bottle, and sometimes some liquid coolant with it. If the bottle holds enough coolant, then it will still make up for the lost coolant in the cooling system, but the level in the bottle will be lower.

WOW - that's a long post. Sorry, but I thought I should try to get this one sorted out properly.
 
   / Over flow bottle #12  
40 years of twisting wrenches and I've never heard that theory of rad cap operation. Very plausable. I do however suspect that in this part of the country at -35F and 60 mph that spring would be like a skinny dippers pride. To short to reach anything. On the bottom of the cap is a brass disc that seats lightly against the lover rubber. When the engine starts to cool, the vacuum created pulls the disc down slightly allowing drawing in coolant from the recovery bottle.
 
   / Over flow bottle #13  
Well, that is certainly more plausible than my explanation... At the time I wrote mine, I just couldn't figure any other way it could work. I stand corrected.

Thanks ducksjunk.
 
   / Over flow bottle #14  
Didn't mean to rain on your parade Greg, forgive me!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / Over flow bottle #15  
Rain? Shoot - that's all we get here in the fall....It must be to make up for the drought we have all summer.

I'm glad someone could set me straight on how these caps work....

Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Over flow bottle
  • Thread Starter
#16  
To follow up, I have replaced the clamp on the lower radiator hose from the original wire type to the conventional worm drive kind. No leaks. Filled the radiator with 1 gallon of distilled water and 4 ounces of Water Wetter. Bought the 13lb cap from NAPA, (Thanks Gbirky!) Been dragging a scraper blade for about two hours at 2250 rpm, won't go above 170. I have not bought the Howse 48" bush hog yet. When I do I'll let you TBN'ers know how it runs.
 

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