Overheating 3540

[the_wolfman]

UPDATE:

added a cheap catch can and it did get fluid ...

1st time it hit 100 opened the cap and no problem with no spillage and temp read under 200 F ...

2nd time it hit 100 opened the cap and it blew big time with spillage - by the time I was able to get then thermometer temp read around 200 F but with so much antifreeze now missing it was hard to get a good reading ... Had to re-fill with water for now ...

Question 1: At what temp would antifreeze push out of the radiator and into the catch can?

At least that might tell me what the temp is getting too ...

Question 2: Besides overheating, what else would cause antifreeze out of the radiator and into the catch can?

Checked for bubbles at 80c and 2200 rpm and none there ...

Thanks,
Greg

 

[RonMar]

Go buy a inexpensive non contact infared thermometer. You shouldn't have to take the radiator cap off, as Greg said, this is a good way to get burnt bad.

The catch can should be configured as a expansion resovoir like in an automobile. The hose from radiator cap fitting should go below the fluid level in the catch can. As the sysem heats, the pressure builds untill the limit on the radiator cap is exceeded. The cap then opens and vents any air in the top of the radiator and fluid to the catch can to maintain a system pressure. Heat transfer is more efficient under pressure as boiling point is retarded. That is why opening a system under pressure is so dangerous, you instantly drop the boling point well below the current water temp and it boils instantly, errupts violently and releases a large ammount of the cooling system contents.

As the system cools, there is a small check valve in the radiator cap. As the system cools, the fluid contracts and goes under vacume. This vacume draws fluid back in from the catch can and keeps the radiator topped off with fluid.

A stream of bubbles comming from the hose in the catch can could be an indication of a head gasket leak. This also puts oil and combustion residue into the coolant so an oily ring will also start to form in the catch can as this material makes it's way to the can.

I will say it again: Your problem is one of or a combination of the following:
1. Poor waterflow
2. Poor airflow
3. timing
4. overloaded/overworked
5. or perhaps a leaking headgasket which isn't really overheating. It adds pressure to the system so the cap vents more often and vents mostly combustion gas(looks kinda like a boilover). This hot gas rises to and surrounds the temp gauge sensor causing the gauge to rise, when the actual fluid temp is not that great.

I don't recall ever reading an answer to the question below...

What are you doing with the tractor during this hour when it overheats?

 

[the_wolfman]

Go buy a inexpensive non contact infared thermometer. You shouldn't have to take the radiator cap off, as Greg said, this is a good way to get burnt bad.

The catch can should be configured as a expansion resovoir like in an automobile. The hose from radiator cap fitting should go below the fluid level in the catch can. As the sysem heats, the pressure builds untill the limit on the radiator cap is exceeded. The cap then opens and vents any air in the top of the radiator and fluid to the catch can to maintain a system pressure. Heat transfer is more efficient under pressure as boiling point is retarded. That is why opening a system under pressure is so dangerous, you instantly drop the boling point well below the current water temp and it boils instantly, errupts violently and releases a large ammount of the cooling system contents.

As the system cools, there is a small check valve in the radiator cap. As the system cools, the fluid contracts and goes under vacume. This vacume draws fluid back in from the catch can and keeps the radiator topped off with fluid.

A stream of bubbles comming from the hose in the catch can could be an indication of a head gasket leak. This also puts oil and combustion residue into the coolant so an oily ring will also start to form in the catch can as this material makes it's way to the can.

I will say it again: Your problem is one of or a combination of the following:
1. Poor waterflow
2. Poor airflow
3. timing
4. overloaded/overworked
5. or perhaps a leaking headgasket which isn't really overheating. It adds pressure to the system so the cap vents more often and vents mostly combustion gas(looks kinda like a boilover). This hot gas rises to and surrounds the temp gauge sensor causing the gauge to rise, when the actual fluid temp is not that great.

I don't recall ever reading an answer to the question below...

What are you doing with the tractor during this hour when it overheats?

Any of the following:

1. Using only the FEL to scoop and pour a raised mound of dirt (very little strain on the motor)

2. Using the 5' box ripper (about 2 to 3 inches down in very soft dirt)

3. Using a 6' blade to move the dirt from the box ripper ...


I now am thinking there was problem from the start - upon delivery - when the tractor was unloaded and it was used to remove the attachments it overheated then and blew water from the radiator ... It has been down hill ever since ...

 

[bluechip]

I would pressure test the cooling system with an eye toward detecting a blown head gasket if you can get ahold of a pressure tester. Also warm the tractor with the cap off and watch for flow in the radaiator, could be a defective water pump,although it is my experience that the head gasket is more likely. If the tractor had kept its cool at one time, I would almost guarantee blockage of airflow through the radiator by seed, dust etc that makes it past or around the screen. This is by far the most common source of overheating on these tractors. You cant see this type of blockage and you need to use a strong water flow (some use compressed air) but in either case you dont want to use high pressure for fear of bending the fins which will inhibit flow the same as if it was still dirty.

 

[RonMar]

Any of the following:

1. Using only the FEL to scoop and pour a raised mound of dirt (very little strain on the motor)

2. Using the 5' box ripper (about 2 to 3 inches down in very soft dirt)

3. Using a 6' blade to move the dirt from the box ripper ...


I now am thinking there was problem from the start - upon delivery - when the tractor was unloaded and it was used to remove the attachments it overheated then and blew water from the radiator ... It has been down hill ever since ...

I wouldn't think it should overheat doing any of that.

You might also try running without the thermostat installed. With the thermostat removed, you should be able to see flow in the top of the radiator wih the cap removed as soon as you start up without waiting for it to get to a temp high enough to open the thermostat. If you don't see good waterflow, you at least know where to look... With the thermostat out, you could also drop the thermostat in a pan of hot water on the stove and watch it open at the appropriate temp. With the thermostat removed, you should also see a change in the heating symptoms. It should take a long time to warm up. No change in symptoms would indicate a blockage somewhere else in the system.

 

[stevem5215]

Welcome to the life of high quality Chinese tractors. It seems if you get a good one of these your life is good. If not then it can be a PIA. Ours has been hit or miss with 190 hrs currently. We too have had overheating issues and when it's hot outside (90 or so) it will slowly move up the temp scale. (over the period of several hours of medium/heavy use) The best thing to do is to keep the rad fluid changed and clean with water wetter and a 60/40 mix. I have the Ron/mar overflow tank update also and that helps. Also, check the valve timing and injector timing. The rad fins plugs easily I've found when brush hogging dry hay type fields. The finish deck doesn't generate as much hay due to those fields being mostly green. I flush my radiator fins about once a month or so now usually just with a air gun. Seems to work well. Ours does not blow much black smoke except when under a very heavy load such as going up a steep hill with the brush hog going with 4 - 5 foot weeds. One question i'd have for you is does the temp come down when you stop the implements, park it in the shade and idle the engine at 1000rpm for 5 mins ? The temp should lower. If it doesn't the first thing I look at is the rad. 1000rpm is the recommended speed for idling and cooling down before shutting down the unit. I've found this to be accurate info and works very well on ours.

Steve

 

[greg_g]

Further to RonMar's thermostat recommendation, it's only a test procedure. If removing the thermostat actually improves cooling, do NOT continue to work the tractor with no thermostat. Doing so will typically cause the engine to operate at too LOW a temperature. It should be replaced with a new thermostat of the proper size and temperature range (80C). If removing the thermostat does NOT improve the cooling issue, you've done nothing more than simply eliminate it as a possible cause for the overheating.

I know you said there's only 14 hours on the tractor. But I'm still a pound or two short of confidence that your cooling system is clean, inside and out. It only takes a few hours work in dry/dusty conditions for airflow restriction to start building. You have to be able to see light through 100% of the radiator fins before you can claim you've got 100% airflow. Often the only way to do that is to physically remove the radiator from the tractor. If the coolant is brown looking, a heavy duty cooling system cleaner should be used on both the radiator AND the engine block. I had to use TWO cans on my Jinmas before clear flush water started coming out the block drain.

Short version; almost all the suggestions offered to you so far assume that an overheating problem exists on a known CLEAN cooling system. Only then should you be breaking out the test equipment and tools.

Oh, and one other thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fan shroud. Assuming you actually have one, the cooling fan blades should be INSIDE the shroud. Since tractors move too slow to push air through the radiator fins, you must rely on the fan to PULL air through. On one of my two Jinmas the radiator and shroud were poorly installed, to the point that there was a large gap between the back of the shroud and the front of the fan blades. I had to move the radiator back on it's frame mount AND center the shrould on its radiator brackets. After the fan blades were actually CENTERED INSIDE the shroud, the engine operating temp came down several degrees and stayed there.

//greg//

 

[the_wolfman]

Alright ... I am heading off to the store to get flush, (proper)l antifreeze, oil etc ...

It is just under 20 hours nows (20 was the recommenced service time) ...

Going to do a complete service ...

When I am done I will first run it with out the thermostat with water to see what happens ...

If it stays cool I will add the thermostat ...

If it stays cool I will drain and add the antifreeze ...

I will be double sure nothing blocking or in the fins of the radiator and double check the air filter ...

Fan and shroud are all a ok ...

When I replaced the thermostat it went in the same way I took it out ... I have replaced them on cars before so I think I got it in right side up

I will let you all know how it works out ...

What can I say but THANK YOU ALL!!!

 

[bjr]

One of contributors had done a nice write up on a Modification. I think his name was Gugulio (Sp) or something lke that. He had trouble getting the engine up to temp was his problem. I think his engine was a 395 3 cyl. He replaced the theromstat with a Napa brand one with a little modification. He paid particular attention as to sealing of the bypass circuit. If the bypass circuit is left open the engine will overheat. The OEM thermostats are suspect in quality. You'd have to do search or maybe one of the other writers hear remember this modification and can expand on this. bjr

 

[bjr]

I found the link to the thermostat mod I was talking about .