Panel box question

[KubotaSteve]

I had my house built about 4 years ago and the panel box was completely full except for 2 blanks. The basement was not even finished. When finishing the basement, I had to end up getting the slimline breakers to have enough room. I am going to be putting up a garage in the near future and was wondering if I could just stick say a 50 or 100 amp breaker in and run it out to the garage and have a small panel box there and then run the smaller lines from there.
Also I currently have 200 amp service, what determines when you need to increase your service? The main power things in the house is the heatpump/AC which is a 4 ton unit, the electric stove, well pump, hot water heater, electric dryer, fridge, freezer. Other than those, its just your basic electricity needs.

 

[beenthere]

As long as you follow the Electric Code, you should be able to do what you want to do. I have a 100A main off my 200A service box (actually did it in reverse, as I added the 200A and fed the existing 100A service in the 'old' part of the house).

As far as going beyond the 200A service, its the sum total of those things that are running at the same time.

Had a neighbor farmer that was doing welding for me, and he had the whole farm on a 60A service, with nothing but a range cable as the drop to his main. From the house, which had an apartment with two electric ranges, and an electric dryer, the lines went to the barn where the milk hauler would plug in his bulk tank pump (220V), and then to the machine shop where his welder would pull a few more amps. On the day I was there, the Electric company stopped by to answer a complaint about low voltage when the milking machine vacuum pump would kick in, the lights would dim. I overheard the conversation between the farmer and the electricians, talking about the huge load on that single range line coming down the side of the house. He was told that someday there would be a huge fireball on that line if he didn't do something about upgrading his service. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[DTCOOPER]

So long as the farmer's service is protected by a main device rated at 60 amps or less, then he should not have any kind of "fireball"...
As far as adding a panel. You can add anything you want, so long as the sum of your loads at any given time does not exceed about 80% of your service. On our place, I just had about 400 amps of service dropped to my meterbase. Out of that meterbase (Double Load Lugs), I fed a 200 amp main breaker load center with feed thru lugs. As well as a 200 amp enclosed circuit breaker. That enclosed breaker (disconnect) will feed the panel in the house. The other panel with feed thru lugs feeds the barn and supplies any circuits I may need out near the service entrance pole. I have 16 circuits there.

I work for an electrical distributor (the largest one the world)... And I will tell you that the majority of the materials I use personally, come from Home Depot. They are cheaper on most of it.. The service entrance panel that I referred to above, with teh feed thru lugs, was only 99 bucks at Home Depot. Distributor Net price (our cost from GE) is $ 123.42 each. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks as always

 

[sparkkky]

With your 200A service I would run a 50A(3-#8 & 1-#10) or 60A(3-#6 & 1-#10) to your new panel. Be sure to use four wires and add a ground bus for the grounds and keep the neutrals Isolated that way theres no extra grounding needed. Its best to use THHN wire and gray PVC made for electrical wiring, with sweep nintys. Do not use romex unless it is UF rated, still need 4 wires as in 8-3 with ground.

Using twin breakers are not a problem, and Lowes or Home Depot can not compete with my local electrical wholesalers!

 

[woodlot]

Cooper, your post is interesting to me, it sounds like exactly what I need. I have a meter and 200 amp disconnect (enclosed breaker) in the yard on a petestal. The disconnect feeds the 200amp main panel in the house. Can you clarify what the "feed through lug load center" is and is is connected before or after the main disconnect. I will be building a garage near the main disconnect and it would be great to run power from there rather than from the house. thanks.

 

[woodlot]

Kobota, what you want to do is perfectly fine and is done all the time. The second box that you are calling a "small panel box" is actually called a "sub-panel." If you do a search on that you will get about 100 hits that detal how to wire one to code.

 

[Inspector507]

<font color="blue"> you will get about 100 hits that detal how to wire one to code </font>

Yep and several hundred more that say....
"well it worked for me and it hasn't burned down, YET"

 

[sparkkky]

The above run down I made is up to code if followed!

Joel Jones,
Electrical Contractor

 

[Inspector507]

Then please read NEC® 250.32

 

[sparkkky]

Inspector why beat around the bush and play games, if I made a mistake why not just point it out?

Guess I would be better off keeping to myself and let him run NM romex in white pipe! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

BTW this is how we do things in OK.

Everybody knows that Insp. reserve the right to better the code to what ever you think is right!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[woodlot]

He's probibly talking about your statement of "no other grounding needed." you are right about 4 wires and no bonding of the neutral bus bar at the sub but I beleive that if the sub-panel is in a remote building that the equipment ground bus bar needs to be tired to ground (8 foot copper rods x2). I am not an electriction. Inspector, could you elaborate?

 

[KubotaSteve]

The garage is going to be attached to the house via a mud room. Since the garage and mudroom are going to be built, they will have to go through all the permit stages and must meet code. All wire being run to the garage will be inside a structure as opposed to going outside under ground.
My old man has a stick welder that runs off a 40 or 50 amp breaker that I may hook up in the garage. That is why I was thinking of going with a 100 amp sub panel in the garage.

 

[Inspector507]

Then by all means, a separate grounding electrode is NOT required.

 

[Inspector507]

sparkkky,
I'm sorry if you took offense. None intended. I'm used to inspecting according to the national/international codes, and your area may have decided not to adopt those. There are lots of jurisdictions that "do their own thing". No problem with that either. We have a local county that is still working on the 1999 NEC®, even though there has been 2 revisions since then.

 

[sparkkky]

No extra means required here even if its two different buildings, and yes our citys around here do not addopt the new book for years.

Bottom line is nobody would ever know the difference unless ONE poor sucker fried himself because of it, and everybody in the know knows thats why we get a new book every three years with around 3000 changes that waffle back and forth is because its alright then its not alright then its ok again, just like the Temp. lighting could be romex, then it had to be S.O. now romex is alright again. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Insp. I would prefer if you have a issue that you just say what you mean, as I am not under your jurisdiction.