Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible?

   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #21  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

As an employeer and property owner, I can tell you it would be my fault if it happened on my property. HOWEVER, there are some very legitimate (legal) ways in which the property owner might be held harmless and the burden would fall on the car owner.

My insurance company might claim "act of God" exclusions under some very specific exclusion clauses and my insurance company might not pay, but that would not absolve me from my responsibility. However, if my insurance company did not pay, then I'm afraid that you might also face the employee rules and what they say. For example, if there is a rule that specifically states the property owner and the company are NOT responsible for damages that occur to vehicles that occur on company property, then you'd be out of luck legally.
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #22  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

<font color="blue"> "I suspect filing a claim to the insurance company will make it the decision of the ins. company, rather than the decision of the office personnel." </font>

While that sounds good, there's something here of which you need to be aware. The only person who can file a claim with the insurance carrier is the insured. In this case, the company is the insured and if they choose not to file a claim there is no claim. Your only option is to deal with the company.

For that reason, on any of my lease agreements I insist on being named "additional insured and loss payee." That way I can file a claim and collect if there's ever any problem with someone not wanting to turn in a claim for an accident.
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #23  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

Junkman, the Ohio Supreme Court also ruled about 10 years ago that landowners are not responsible for injuries resulting from "natural accumulations of ice and snow," not so much because it's an act of G-d, but more because even the most base dolt knows that the stuff is slippery. That said, if you shovelled your driveway and it became slippery therefrom, then that could trigger liability (arguably -- it's no longer a natural accumulation). It's kind of odd, because you're then almost better off not shovelling your walks\driveway.
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #24  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

<font color="blue"> ( People often cite the McDonald's hot coffee case as an example of over litigation.

Out of curiosity, would this fact change your opinion:

The coffee was so hot that it deformed the plastic lid, causing the lid to unseat from the cup and allow the contents to spill out. So the argument is that McDonald's didn't provide a 'to go' cup capable of safely handling the high temp. coffee, regardless of the cup being in a lap, the cup holder or on the table. ) </font>

Actually, it would not change my opinion. McD's may have been dumb for not monitoring the temp of their coffee, but this woman was 'three points below a rock' for putting it in her lap. If she had to panic stop or swerve in traffic, the cover would have come off even if it were not deformed. But this suit wasn't over a deformed lid. This lady was removing the lid to add sugar and cream when it spilled. She was just plain STUPID!!!

And what really gets me is the monetary award. This 81 year old woman was awarded $2.9 million. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif There is just no reality to that kind of award, other than us common folk just love to nail those nasty corporations. And we wonder why a burger isn't 15 cents any more.... (oh, sorry...showing my age /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) <font color="blue"> </font>
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #25  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

I think we need to get our facts straight on the McDonald's coffee caper.

No, the woman wasn't driving, her grandson was. the car was stopped so that she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. When she removed the lid, it spilled all over her. The coffee she purchased was at least 20 degrees hotter than other restaurant's -- so hot it could (and did) cause full thickness third degree burns within seconds if you spilled it on yourself. I know I wouldn't want to drink anything that hot. The woman spent 7 days in the hospital for skin grafts, the burns were so bad. McDonald's had previously settled over 700 other cases where customers who were burned by their coffee, yet never adjusted the temperature at which their coffee was kept (between 180 and 190 degrees). She only filed a suit after McDonald's refused to pay her medical bills. After winning her jury trial, the judge reduced the punitive damage award to $480,000.00. The parties entered into a confidential settlement after that, so we don't even know if the woman received the $480,000.00.

This info may or may not change your mind, but let's not continue with the inflammatory snippets of info that are technically accurate, but wholly skewed without the proper context.
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #26  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

<font color="blue"> McDonalds Coffee Lawsuit

McDonald's Callousness Was Real Issue, Jurors Say, In Case of Burned Woman

How Hot Do You Like It?

by Andrea Gerlin
Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
September 1, 1994
The Wall Street Journal
(© 1994, Dow Jones & Co., Inc.)

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - When a law firm here found itself defending McDonald's Corp. in a suit last year that claimed the company served dangerously hot coffee, it hired a law student to take temperatures at other local restaurants for comparison.

After dutifully slipping a thermometer into steaming cups and mugs all over the city, Danny Jarrett found that none came closer than about 20 degrees to the temperature at which McDonald's coffee is poured, about 180 degrees.

It should have been a warning.

But McDonald's lawyers went on to dismiss several opportunities to settle out of court, apparently convinced that no jury would punish a company for serving coffee the way customers like it. After all, its coffee's temperature helps explain why McDonald's sells a billion cups a year.

But now - days after a jury here awarded $2.9 million to an 81-year-old woman scalded by McDonald's coffee - some observers say the defense was naïve. "I drink McDonald's coffee because it's hot, the hottest coffee around," says Robert Gregg, a Dallas defense attorney who consumes it during morning drives to the office. "But I've predicted for years that someone's going to win a suit, because I've spilled it on myself. And unlike the coffee I make at home, it's really hot. I mean, man, it hurts."

McDonald's, known for its fastidious control over franchisees, requires that its coffee be prepared at very high temperatures, based on recommendations of coffee consultants and industry groups that say hot temperatures are necessary to fully extract the flavor during brewing.

Before trial, McDonald's gave the opposing lawyer its operations and training manual, which says its coffee must be brewed at 195 to 205 degrees and held at 180 to 190 degrees for optimal taste. Sine the verdict, McDonald's has declined to offer any comment, as have their attorneys. It is unclear if the company, whose coffee cups warn drinkers that the contents are hot, plans to change its preparation procedures.

Coffee temperature is suddenly a hot topic in the industry. The Specialty Coffee Association of America has put coffee safety on the agenda of its quarterly board meeting this month. And a spokesman for Dunkin' Donuts Inc., which sells about 500 million cups of coffee a year, says the company is looking at the verdict to see if it needs to make any changes to the way it makes coffee.

Others call it a tempest in a coffeepot. A spokesman for the National Coffee Association says McDonald's coffee conforms to industry temperature standards. And a spokesman for Mr. Coffee Inc., the coffee-machine maker, says that if customer complaints are any indication, industry settings may be too low - some customers like it hotter. A spokeswoman for Starbucks Coffee Co. adds, "Coffee is traditionally a hot beverage and is served hot and I would hope that this is an isolated incident."

Coffee connoisseur William McAlpin, an importer and wholesaler in Bar Harbor, Maine, who owns a coffee plantation in Costa Rica, says 175 degrees is "probably the optimum temperature, because that's when aromatics are being released. Once the aromas get in your palate, that is a large part of what makes the coffee a pleasure to drink."

Public opinion is squarely on the side of McDonald's. Polls have shown a large majority of Americans - including many who typically support the little guy - to be outraged at the verdict. And radio talk-show hosts around the country have lambasted the plaintiff, her attorneys and the jurors on air. Declining to be interviewed for this story, one juror explained that he already had received angry calls from citizens around the country.

It's a reaction that many of the jurors could have understood - before they heard the evidence. At the beginning of the trial, jury foreman Jerry Goens says he "wasn't convinced as to why I needed to be there to settle a coffee spill."

At that point, Mr. Goens and the other jurors knew only the basic facts: that two years earlier, Stella Liebeck had bought a 49-cent cup of coffee at the drive-in window of an Albuquerque McDonald's, and while removing the lid to add cream and sugar had spilled it, causing third-degree burns of the groin, inner thighs and buttocks. Her suit, filed in state court in Albuquerque, claimed the coffee was "defective" because it was so hot.

What the jury didn't realize initially was the severity of her burns. Told during the trial of Mrs. Liebeck's seven days in the hospital and her skin grafts, and shown gruesome photographs, jurors began taking the matter more seriously. "It made me come home and tell my wife and daughters don't drink coffee in the car, at least not hot," says juror Jack Elliott.

Even more eye-opening was the revelation that McDonald's had seen such injuries many times before. Company documents showed that in the past decade McDonald's had received at least 700 reports of coffee burns ranging from mild to third degree, and had settled claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000.

Some observers wonder why McDonald's, after years of settling coffee-burn cases, chose to take this one to trial. After all, the plaintiff was a sympathetic figure - an articulate, 81-year-old former department store clerk who said under oath that she had never filed suit before. In fact, she said, she never would have filed this one if McDonald's hadn't dismissed her requests for compensation for pain and medical bills with an offer of $800.

Then there was the matter of Mrs. Liebeck's attorney. While recuperating from her injuries in the Santa Fe home of her daughter, Mrs. Liebeck happened to meet a pair of Texas transplants familiar with a Houston attorney who had handled a 1986 hot-coffee lawsuit against McDonald's. His name was Reed Morgan, and ever since he had deeply believed that McDonald's coffee is too hot.

For that case, involving a Houston woman with third-degree burns, Mr. Morgan had the temperature of coffee taken at 18 restaurants such as Dairy Queen, Wendy's and Dunkin' Donuts, and at 20 McDonald's restaurants. McDonald's, his investigator found, accounted for nine of the 12 hottest readings. Also for that case, Mr. Morgan deposed Christopher Appleton, a McDonald's quality assurance manager, who said "he was aware of this risk…and had no plans to turn down the heat," according to Mr. Morgan. McDonald's settled that case for $27,500.

Now, plotting Mrs. Liebeck's case, Mr. Morgan planned to introduce photographs of his previous client's injuries and those of a California woman who suffered second- and third-degree burns after a McDonald's employee spilled hot coffee into her vehicle in 1990, a case that was settled out of court for $230,000.

Tracy McGee of Rodey, Dickason, Sloan, Akin & Robb, the lawyers for McDonald's, strenuously objected. "First-person accounts by sundry women whose nether regions have been scorched by McDonald's coffee might well be worthy of Oprah," she wrote in a motion to state court Judge Robert Scott. "But they have no place in a court of law." Judge Scott did not allow the photographs nor the women's testimony into evidence, but said Mr. Morgan could mention the cases.

As the trial date approached, McDonald's declined to settle. At one point, Mr. Morgan says he offered to drop the case for $300,000, and was willing to accept half that amount.

But McDonald's didn't bite.

Only days before the trial, Judge Scott ordered both sides to attend a mediation session. The mediator, a retired judge, recommended that McDonald's settle for $225,000, saying a jury would be likely to award that amount. The company didn't follow his recommendation.

Instead, McDonald's continued denying any liability for Mrs. Liebeck's burns. The company suggested that she may have contributed to her injuries by holding the cup between her legs and not removing her clothing immediately. And it also argued that "Mrs. Liebeck's age may have caused her injuries to have been worse than they might have been in a younger individual," since older skin is thinner and more vulnerable to injury.

The trial lasted seven sometimes mind-numbing days. Experts dueled over the temperature at which coffee causes burns. A scientist testifying for McDonald's argued that any coffee hotter than 130 degrees could produce third-degree burns, so it didn't matter whether Mc Donald's coffee was hotter. But a doctor testifying on behalf of Mrs. Liebeck argued that lowering the serving temperature to about 160 degrees could make a big difference, because it takes less than three seconds to produce a third-degree burn at 190 degrees, about 12 to 15 seconds at 180 degrees and about 20 seconds at 160 degrees.

The testimony of Mr. Appleton, the McDonald's executive, didn't help the company, jurors said later. He testified that McDonald's knew its coffee sometimes caused serious burns, but hadn't consulted burn experts about it. He also testified that McDonald's had decided not to warn customers about the possibility of severe burns, even though most people wouldn't think it possible. Finally, he testified that McDonald's didn't intend to change any of its coffee policies or procedures, saying, "There are more serious dangers in restaurants."

Mr. Elliott, the juror, says he began to realize that the case was about "callous disregard for the safety of the people."

Next for the defense came P. Robert Knaff, a human-factors engineer who earned $15,000 in fees from the case and who, several jurors said later, didn't help McDonald's either. Dr. Knaff told the jury that hot-coffee burns were statistically insignificant when compared to the billion cups of coffee McDonald's sells annually.

To jurors, Dr. Knaff seemed to be saying that the graphic photos they had seen of Mrs. Liebeck's burns didn't matter because they were rare. "There was a person behind every number and I don't think the corporation was attaching enough importance to that," says juror Betty Farnham.

When the panel reached the jury room, it swiftly arrived at the conclusion that McDonald's was liable. "The facts were so overwhelmingly against the company," says Ms. Farnham. "They were not taking care of their consumers."

Then the six men and six women decided on compensatory damages of $200,000, which they reduced to $160,000 after determining that 20% of the fault belonged with Mrs. Liebeck for spilling the coffee.

The jury then found that McDonald's had engaged in willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct, the basis for punitive damages. Mr. Morgan had suggested penalizing McDonald's the equivalent of one to two days of companywide coffee sales, which he estimated at $1.35 million a day. During the four-hour deliberation, a few jurors unsuccessfully argued for as much as $9.6 million in punitive damages. But in the end, the jury settled on $2.7 million.

McDonald's has since asked the judge for a new trial. Judge Scott has asked both sides to meet with a mediator to discuss settling the case before he rules on McDonald's request. The judge also has the authority to disregard the jury's finding or decrease the amount of damages.

One day after the verdict, a local reporter tested the coffee at the McDonald's that had served Mrs. Liebeck and found it to be a comparatively cool 158 degrees. But industry officials say they doubt that this signals any companywide change. After all, in a series of focus groups last year, customers who buy McDonald's coffee at least weekly say that "morning coffee has minimal taste requirements, but must be hot," to the point of steaming.

__________________________

POSTSCRIPT - Following the trial of Ms. Liebeck's case, the judge who presided over it reduced the punitive damages award to $480,000, even though the judge called McDonald's conduct reckless, callous and willful. This reduction is a corrective feature built into our legal system. Furthermore, after that, both parties agreed to a settlement of the claim for a sum reported to be much less than the judge's reduced award. Another corrective feature.

ADDITIONAL NOTE - Prior to the Liebeck case, the prestigious Shriner's Burn Institute in Cincinnati had published warnings to the franchise food industry that its members were unnecessarily causing serious scald burns by serving beverages above 130 degrees Fahrenheit.

OUR COMMENT - Any common consumer product which can cause third-degree burns (the worst kind) in two to seven seconds is seriously dangerous. Who could have imagined this risk from a cup of coffee? But, McDonald's had ample evidence of it.

These hyper-heated beverages should be eliminated from the marketplace. The Liebeck jury can be commended for its courage in sending this message to the food service industry. Remember, these horrific burns could have happened to you or your family members and friends.







Contact Us

800.883.8888
602.252.8888 - Phoenix
520.322.9100 - Tucson
info@vanosteen.com




Current Cases

Prempro
Cypher Stent
Paxil
Meridia
Crestor
Zicam and Cold Eeze
Welding Rods
Serzone




Legal News

Tort Reform - The Truth About Medical Malpractice
by Leo Boyle

In Defense of So-Called Greedy Trial Lawyers
by Richard M. Alderman








Site Map
</font>
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #27  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

Another point about McD's Burning Host Coffee is that the company was keeping the coffee hot to save money. At the time, I don't go to McD's so I don't know if they still do, but at the time of the accident McDonalds had a free refill policy on their coffee. By keeping the coffee so hot that people had to wait for the drink to cool down they where less likely to finish the cup and get the free refill. Saved Ronald some change.

Sorry McDonalds was wrong on this issue. This was a case of a company making promises, i.e., free refills, and then doing what they could to not honor their marketing. The fact that many people where burned because of their hot coffee did not matter to them.

What is also interesting is that many people, see the news article that was posted, think that this was a junk lawsuit when it fact it was very correct. It really shows how the media can't get the facts right on a simple, open, documented public trial. What else do they get wrong?

Later,
Dan
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #28  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

Here's an example that I'm not sure which way to come down on.

Where I work, there is a parking lot which edges right up to the side of a building. Last winter, a huge chunk of ice slid off the roof of the building, and caused quite a bit of damage to one guy's car.

Probably not a case of improper maintenance; probably not a case of employee negligence (he just parked where there was an empty spot in the parking lot. Clearly nobody expected this to happen, and probably nobody had any reasonable way of predicting that it would happen.

The company reimbursed him.. which was nice.. but I'm not sure they were technically required to?
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #29  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

I don't know where the law would stand on the ice situation, but I think it was handled right.

I look at things like this as good public relations. Your company probably bought a lot of loyalty from your co-worker with that repair.

Unfortuanately, when companies do take care of things like this for people, then someone else comes along to take advantage, because they feel entitled.

This forces the companies to fight every claim like hell to keep the leeches off of them.
 
   / Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who's responsible? #30  
Re: Parking Lot Tree VS. Truck Who\'s responsible?

To answer the original question, if the tree appeared healthy, and did not show obvious signs of decay or rot, then the company was not negligent for not removing it. Therefore, there is no liability on the part of the company. The company is not legally responsible and the insurance liability claim would be correctly denied. If a company wants to take on responsibility, just based on the fact they owned the tree, they are doing so purely out of the goodness of their heart, not because they have any responsibility to do so.

If one of your trees blows over in a windstorm, gets hit by lightning, etc., and falls on a neighbor's house, your insurance company won't pay a dime, even though you owned the tree (again assuming it is not an obviously dead tree). Even if it was obviously dead, unless the damaged party can prove the owner knew, there still is likely no coverage under the tree owner's policy. The person who owns the damaged house will have coverage for the damage, including the cost to remove the tree from the building and to clean it up.

Short of flat clearing all property, if a tree appears healthy, why should the owner be held responsible for what happens with the tree? He didn't know there was a problem with it. It's not his fault it fell, it's not his responsibility to pay for the resulting damage. If you drive a vehicle without full coverage, or do not insure your property, you're the one taking the risk, and you will lose out if something happens. It's not the company's responsibility to make up for the shortcomings in coverage a person elects to have.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

NEW Skid Steer Bolt on Hay Forks (A53002)
NEW Skid Steer...
2001 International 4700 Dump Truck with Compressor, VIN # 1HTSCAAN91H363922 (A51572)
2001 International...
2012 CATERPILLAR 279C2 SKID STEER (A51242)
2012 CATERPILLAR...
2000 Trail King TK70SA-48.2 T/A 43 Ton Hydraulic Slide Axle Step Deck Trailer (A52377)
2000 Trail King...
9202 (A50322)
9202 (A50322)
2020 JOHN DEERE 5125R LOT NUMBER 213 (A53084)
2020 JOHN DEERE...
 
Top