Penny wise, pound foolish

[ducati996]

I'm not "getting huffy", just defending what I know to be right. To paraphrase an old ice hockey term, your wording seemed a little "chippy".

Likewise by the defensive tone in your response. I’m totally ok with it and understand your perspective. Overall we can only make logical conclusions from the information given in the posts. It usually turns out that there is more behind the situation and that’s ok - things are different and are handled differently in each region. I think we could all learn from each other, as long as the atmosphere is designed to be mutually receptive. I dont think this forum is there yet by any means, but thats not your fault -

 

[Dougster]

I just wish that folks down here were as willing to pay for equipment, expertise, insurance, fuel, other expenses, as those in other parts of the country. I suppose a few "prostitutes" (insert slang term here) are to blame for setting the market at a ridiculously low level.
Typically, we are able to charge 20.00 per acre for mowing. Lots of trees, ponds, etc, we can usually get 25.00 per acre. I am in a very rural area, where lots of folks have tractors. Bittersweet thing is that more and more folks are moving out here to the sticks, and buying small acreages. Most will buy themselves a small rider for a year or two, until they realize that an MTD 16HP mower is not designed to cut 2-1/2 acres of knee high grass. THEN they will come around to paying the 20-25 per acre. But as I said, even at these prices, it's hard to break even, much less make a profit. Especially when you load up Saturday morning at 6:00, drive 17 miles, unload, mow a "4 acre guaranteed clean pasture" for 80 bucks, and irrepairably cut a front R1 Tire on the Case DX33.. Soooo, $15.00 fuel (tractor and truck), insurance, 2 hours, 60.00 dollar tire..... equates to lost my tail this Saturday.. Oh well, comes easy and goes easier I suppose..

I think that no matter where you live there is always that someone who is willing to do work for near nuthin'. I ran into it BIGTIME with snowplowing this past winter and now I'm running into it with tractor and backhoe work. Funny thing is that it is not just illegal aliens running beat-up old Bobcats under the table anymore. My biggest competition right now is a fairly good sized excavation company with some serious equipment that MUST have business liability insurance.

Spoke to a construction supervisor yesterday working on a small bridge near my house. He claimed to be hurting like crazy right now for business and told me that everyone else he knew was in the same boat. It might explain why "real" excavation companies around here are going after piddley little residential work with such a vengeance.

Dougster

 

[scott_vt]

Yep.. in the horse community I live in.. you see people trying to take care of 2-3-5 ac lawns with rider mowers.

Soundguy

Mornin Chris,
Yep, the guy down below me has a Sears 42" rider and invariably sometime during the season when he cant get er done, due to rain etc, I usually come down and rescue him with the bush hog !

 

[Kendall69]

Funny thing is that it is not just illegal aliens running beat-up old Bobcats under the table anymore.

When people talk of our Southern "visitors" helping us keep produce prices low, what they don't tell people that these visitors, are starting businesses left and right and working for wages only after expenses.

We have to worry about insurance and laws because we all have something to lose, whereas our visitors do not - they have nothing to lose.

My business insurance alone is 36K a year, add in all my other fees for employees, workmans comp, vehicle insurance etc. These visitors are wiping out hard working HONEST businessmen all over this country.

I'm thinking of becoming an illegal alien if I can do it retroactively, then I can not pay my taxes for the last number of years, and just pay the $5K alien fee, then I wouldn't have to pay insurance, and I could use the emergency room as my primary physician.

 

[Soundguy]

The CO. I work for used to not even pick up plans for bids estimated at under 40K$.. we are ow doing 1000$ driveway jobs IF we can get them...

times are hard right at this moment. It's awednesday afternoon and all my guys are in the yard washing equipment waiting for another contract to come up... i figure it's like this in lots of places..

Soundguy

I think that no matter where you live there is always that someone who is willing to do work for near nuthin'. I ran into it BIGTIME with snowplowing this past winter and now I'm running into it with tractor and backhoe work. Funny thing is that it is not just illegal aliens running beat-up old Bobcats under the table anymore. My biggest competition right now is a fairly good sized excavation company with some serious equipment that MUST have business liability insurance.

Spoke to a construction supervisor yesterday working on a small bridge near my house. He claimed to be hurting like crazy right now for business and told me that everyone else he knew was in the same boat. It might explain why "real" excavation companies around here are going after piddley little residential work with such a vengeance.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I'm thinking of becoming an illegal alien if I can do it retroactively, then I can not pay my taxes for the last number of years, and just pay the $5K alien fee, then I wouldn't have to pay insurance, and I could use the emergency room as my primary physician.

Don't forget... no vehicle insurance or traffic tickets either! You can do no wrong! It's like dying and going to heaven.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

The CO. I work for used to not even pick up plans for bids estimated at under 40K$.. we are ow doing 1000$ driveway jobs IF we can get them... times are hard right at this moment. It's a wednesday afternoon and all my guys are in the yard washing equipment waiting for another contract to come up... i figure it's like this in lots of places.
Soundguy

Very depressing. I try very hard to work each and every call I get no matter how marginal or far away... but then you find out that they had a guy lined up to do the work and are just checking to see if you can do it cheaper. Either that, or the job was so risky that the other guy didn't want it or quit in the middle of it!

Where have all the normal clients and normal jobs gone???

Dougster

 

[LoneCowboy]

Very depressing. I try very hard to work each and every call I get no matter how marginal or far away... but then you find out that they had a guy lined up to do the work and are just checking to see if you can do it cheaper. Either that, or the job was so risky that the other guy didn't want it or quit in the middle of it!

Where have all the normal clients and normal jobs gone???

Dougster

I think a lot of it is attitude. Sales guys never take no for an answer. Why? Because they don't understand the word No, it just rolls off them. You aren't going to win every job, that's ok, and you have to let that go. "ok, didn't win that one, why not?"
Was it priced wrong?
Wrong type of work? (something I don't do well or do at all)
Wrong type of customer? (not my usual customer?)
I came across poorly?
I didn't know something?

but you can't let the "no's" get you down.

Hey, personally I think a call is a great thing. (even if it is one of those annoying "how much for this?" type of calls that you just know they are price checking"). It means my advertising is working, I've got a contact, I'm in the door. That's half the battle.

I don't expect to win every job, but the more calls I get, the more wins I get. Now I've got some information on this customer. name, phone, address, what type of work. now I can hit them up with a postcard or something. I know I'm on their list, they will call back. Maybe not this year, but next year. My name is out there, etc

Gotta bid jobs to get jobs.

Sometimes you gotta take crappy jobs (esp when new, or maybe when you want to do more work for others) but you shouldn't make a business out of it. (or, you've defined your business incorrectly).

You gotta define what your business is, and what your niche is and how you can save others time/money/resources. And specialize in that and do it better than anyone else and let the whole world know about it.

 

[Dougster]

Sometimes you gotta take crappy jobs (esp when new, or maybe when you want to do more work for others) but you shouldn't make a business out of it. (or, you've defined your business incorrectly).

Crappy jobs... fine! I'll do crappy jobs all day long if I can get them! But what about the dangerous ones... the physically and legally risky ones... the very high liability ones? To some extent, I am jealous of you folks who mow these wide open pastures day after day for megabucks where your worst risk is a flat tire (and BTW, I just fixed a nasty one here today! ). Just for a moment... ask yourself what you would do if you suddenly found yourself living in an area without those nifty low-risk pastures. How would you refocus your tractor-related business... or would you give up and go to work at a Taco Bell like I'm thinking of doing!?!

You gotta define what your business is, and what your niche is and how you can save others time/money/resources. And specialize in that and do it better than anyone else and let the whole world know about it.

I am certainly trying. Unfortunately, I am competing against everything from illegal aliens working under the table to major excavating contractors apparently looking to keep their folks busy during hard times. People always told me... find that niche in between the big boys with yellow machines and the limited capability landscape and lawn care folks. Supposedly that was the profitable, under-served, niche market. But around here, that supposed "underserved market" is being swamped with undocumented, uninsured, unlicensed Bobcat services and very desperate contractors at bargain basement prices. What's left for me seem to be the riskiest of the risky jobs.

Taco Bell... here I come!

Dougster

 

[ducati996]

I am certainly trying. Unfortunately, I am competing against everything from illegal aliens working under the table to major excavating contractors apparently looking to keep their folks busy during hard times. People always told me... find that niche in between the big boys with yellow machines and the limited capability landscape and lawn care folks. Supposedly that was the profitable, under-served, niche market. But around here, that supposed "underserved market" is being swamped with undocumented, uninsured, unlicensed Bobcat services and very desperate contractors at bargain basement prices. What's left for me seem to be the riskiest of the risky jobs.

Taco Bell... here I come!

Dougster

You might have to pick up a job part time or something with flexible hours (if it exisits) that can hold you over for the slow periods and help you get going. Upstart business typically dont do well the first few years (if ever at all), so you have to be in it for the long haul. Rejection and getting discouraged is the name of the game - you have to pick yourself up and keep going in order for it to work. Get close with some of the other specialists - the guys who do tree work, usually dont clean up well or re-seed or regrade etc...you find a job that involves trees, you get them involved. They have a job that requires grading, mowing, re-seeding they call you. I cant tell you how busy I keep my sprinkler guy, tree guy, my paver & driveway guy - its one big love fest. Everybody has more than they can chew -only deal with the best as well. The other part is have them do the work, and you are the sub contractor making a profit on the work they did, but you are the contact point for the customer. You know how that works - do it right it works very well for everybody. You need to network everyday, and work on finding commerical accounts in the business districts - you cold call or stop in these places, or you call the people who can help you get in -

best of luck, and dont quit and keep the chin up and out and let the shots come in, because they will roll off and it will turn around. It can turn around in one phone call - and suddenly you cant handle it all

Duc