PEX & Kinks

[paulsharvey]

I wouldn't use a sharkbite in an area I can't access for repair in the future. Not saying they don't work, but how is the 10/20/30 year life, under water hammer?

 

[paulsharvey]

To change the topic ever so slightly; I'm used to fused HDPE and fusable PVC on water mains, forcemains, gas mains, ect, heck even 6" power conduit for longer bores; and I've seen Eastern European videos where they have Thermal fused, roll pipe for general plumbing. When done correctly (clean, heated property, held with xorrect pressure, for correct time) HDPE/LDPE/MDPE fused joints are incredible. Is this used in any part of the western world for 'plumbing'. For a home owner, the fuser, shaver, ect (Fusion machine on bigger pipe) would be a bit expensive, but I can't see a handheld Fusion machine, and manual slicer/shaver, costing more than maybe $250-500?

Would FPVC, in 1"-2" be prohibitively expensive, is it just a regional thing, or am I missing a reason it wouldn't work here?

Also; don't know how battery would last, but say, 18v, 6ah, cordless portable fuser?

 

[ponytug]

To change the topic ever so slightly; I'm used to fused HDPE and fusable PVC on water mains, forcemains, gas mains, ect, heck even 6" power conduit for longer bores; and I've seen Eastern European videos where they have Thermal fused, roll pipe for general plumbing. When done correctly (clean, heated property, held with xorrect pressure, for correct time) HDPE/LDPE/MDPE fused joints are incredible. Is this used in any part of the western world for 'plumbing'. For a home owner, the fuser, shaver, ect (Fusion machine on bigger pipe) would be a bit expensive, but I can't see a handheld Fusion machine, and manual slicer/shaver, costing more than maybe $250-500?

Would FPVC, in 1"-2" be prohibitively expensive, is it just a regional thing, or am I missing a reason it wouldn't work here?

Also; don't know how battery would last, but say, 18v, 6ah, cordless portable fuser?

I also like PE pipes at scale to be fusion bonded. It is fast, reproducible and generates a really high quality joint. There is a reason why it is the choice for gas mains.

As far as I am aware fusion piping is limited to MDPE/HDPE/PP in household uses, and while PVC is solvent welded, I would have concerns about thermal fusion welding of PVC pipe in terms of chemical leachates into a (drinking) water pipe.

At the low tech end, I have seen fusion welding done on small (1-2") PE pipes with a gasoline blow torch and a metal plate. Of course, it is very dependent on the operator's level of skill, but it can be done.

Did you know that in the US PEX is not rated for subsoil use? Go figure. Apparently MDPE/HDPE is permitted. PEX is not.

All the best,

Peter

 

[paulsharvey]

There is FPVC, fusable pvc, used for water and sewer lines, but I've never seen it below 8" diameter. It doesn't have the flex of HDPE, but enough for directional drilling. The beauty of it is, you dont have to upsize like HDPE, and it takes the same fitting as your general use C900 PVC in the system, means a municipality doesn't have to stock as many ememergnecy replacement parts/sizes.

One local county Loves FPVC, and another local county refuses to use it under any circumstance. Had an engineer say he hated it, cause if a pipe did split, it would be a whole 40 ft stick.

On upsizing; if anyone wasn't aware; your run a 8" water main, and directional drill a road with HDPE, you upsize to the next standard sized pipe, ie 10"; because HDPE has a narrower ID, and possibly? a increased friction coefficient? Never camera'd the inside of FPVC or HDPE; so I don't know if you get a 'ridge' on the OD at the fuse?

 

[Dftodd]

To change the topic ever so slightly; I'm used to fused HDPE and fusable PVC on water mains, forcemains, gas mains, ect, heck even 6" power conduit for longer bores; and I've seen Eastern European videos where they have Thermal fused, roll pipe for general plumbing. When done correctly (clean, heated property, held with xorrect pressure, for correct time) HDPE/LDPE/MDPE fused joints are incredible. Is this used in any part of the western world for 'plumbing'. For a home owner, the fuser, shaver, ect (Fusion machine on bigger pipe) would be a bit expensive, but I can't see a handheld Fusion machine, and manual slicer/shaver, costing more than maybe $250-500?

Would FPVC, in 1"-2" be prohibitively expensive, is it just a regional thing, or am I missing a reason it wouldn't work here?

Also; don't know how battery would last, but say, 18v, 6ah, cordless portable fuser?

Have you looked into the cost of the fusion machines???

We have one at work. And it's $$$$$ for parts

My coworker is the fusion guru, so my only operation of the machine is starting it, and unloading it from a truck for one of our drivers

I'm the guy in the trackhoe dragging the pipe when needed

Of course the last fusion job we did was 18" pipe for a sewer bypass.

 

[paulsharvey]

Looks like $53 for no-name micro fuser. My thought on a set up like this, is temp control, and in the videos I've seen, they basically 'melt' a bell and spigot, and not a butt weld like a proper Fusion machine. Also, with pipe Fusion, clean, perfect butt are critical; as well as temp and then holding for right amount of time with right amount of pressure.

It says it works on PE, PB, and PPR. No idea what PB or PPR is? Maybe PolyButlyne? PVC, CPVC, HDPE (often people say HDPE, but mean LDPE or MDPE) I'm familar with, not sure what 'PEX' really is, chemically.

 

[ponytug]

Looks like $53 for no-name micro fuser. My thought on a set up like this, is temp control, and in the videos I've seen, they basically 'melt' a bell and spigot, and not a butt weld like a proper Fusion machine. Also, with pipe Fusion, clean, perfect butt are critical; as well as temp and then holding for right amount of time with right amount of pressure. View attachment 833402
It says it works on PE, PB, and PPR. No idea what PB or PPR is? Maybe PolyButlyne? PVC, CPVC, HDPE (often people say HDPE, but mean LDPE or MDPE) I'm familar with, not sure what 'PEX' really is, chemically.

PB is polybutylene, and PPR is polypropylene. PB is uncommon.

PEX is cross (X) linked Polyelthylene. Basically polyethylene with some bonds that link the polyethylene chains to each other making a tougher, more dimensionally stable plastic. The cross links can be generated either with extra chemicals mixed into the polymerization step, or by irradiating the polyethylene with electrons.

I would only use a cheap fusion bonding system where I a) could see a leak, and b) tolerate a leak, I.e. not inside a house. Real ones cost $$$$ for a reason.

All the best,

Peter

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm not saying a proper plumber would be fusing 3/4" with something from Amazon, but if that one is $53; I'm sure Rigid can make a good plug in one for $500; or Milwaukee could have an 18v cordless for $750. Just commenting that I've never seen this type of set up used in the US on residential work. It's the norm in directional drilling larger diameter utilities, and based on YouTube, it appears common in Eastern Europe.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanksgiving day, wife had to work, so I took the kids over to mom's house. They had a pretty bad water leak. Of coarse not a single place open. Cut a hole in the ceiling, of coarse its old wire lathe old style plaster. When they had some roof work done about 2 months ago, a roofing nail went into a copper pipe (in at least one place). Another galv 90 was apparently spraying on the hot side too. House was build in like 1947 or something, and it's a hodgepodge of galv, copper, some slightly more modern, and some reworked stuff from the last 20 years. A real 'joy' to work on anything like that.

Funny part, driving over there, was talking to 12 y/o and 9 y/o daughters about dissimilar metals corrosion.

 

[ponytug]

Thanksgiving day, wife had to work, so I took the kids over to mom's house. They had a pretty bad water leak. Of coarse not a single place open. Cut a hole in the ceiling, of coarse its old wire lathe old style plaster. When they had some roof work done about 2 months ago, a roofing nail went into a copper pipe (in at least one place). Another galv 90 was apparently spraying on the hot side too. House was build in like 1947 or something, and it's a hodgepodge of galv, copper, some slightly more modern, and some reworked stuff from the last 20 years. A real 'joy' to work on anything like that.

Funny part, driving over there, was talking to 12 y/o and 9 y/o daughters about dissimilar metals corrosion.

Sorry about the bad water leaks. Thanks for sharing the joy of leak and dissimilar metals stories

They did make me laugh, as we had something similar many years ago. We were told that the original owners replaced the galvanized pipe with copper, and yes, they had, sort of. When you looked under the house, all that could be seen was copper. What couldn't be seen was that they had plumbed the new copper into old galvanized pipes in the walls. So, round about Thanksgiving one day water started coming out of a wall... The plumbing repairs was pretty straightforward, the repairs on everything else somewhat less so. It has given me a nice story to share over the years...

All the best,

Peter