photos of basement waterproofing with bx - questions and comments?

[ampsucker]

Like a lot of others, we have had waaayy above average rainfall this year. The result is water coming in my mom's house in the half underground lower level everytime it rains several inches. I started tackling this job this week on Thursday night and have made pretty good progress. I have a couple of comments on the BX performance and a few questions I hope to get some help with from the folks on this forum. I'll post up more pics as it goes along.

First, I didn't really know what we would find once I started digging. We new the water was coming in from several different places. We had found some cracks in the cement wall on the inside during remodeling of one room and patching from the inside didn't solve the problem. My plan was to dig down from the outside and depending on what we found, most likely install some external drainage pipes and do some waterproofing.

Once we got down to the bottom of the foundation, we found it originally had a drain pipe installed that seemed to have stopped working. The odd thing is none of us could ever remember seeing where the drain pipe came out. Keep in mind our familiy has lived here since 1980 and the house was built in the late 60s. So, this PVC perf pipe has been in there over 38 years and probably the end (or ends) of it was covered up long ago during landscaping or by grass and silt covering it up. Why it took so long to start leaking into the house is anybody's guess. It might have just been the extra wet weather we've been having the last few years.

I also found the outside of the wall had been painted with black asphalt roofing material. From research, I found the pros call this "damp proofing" as opposed to actual waterproofing. Usually, damp proofing is done to save a few bucks during construction. The life expectancy of the asphalt material is about 20 or so years, so all things considered, we did pretty good to make it through with a dry house as long as we did.

I did all the digging with the BX in about 10 hours. It took a little while to get the hang of it. The white windows you see in the photos are new and I was kinda worried I would nick one if the hoe got away from me, but so far, so good! I had done some smaller projects before, but this was definitely the real test of my hoeing skills. I had to stop once and tighten up the linkage under the controls and lube them up because they were squeeking.

Overall, I ended up digging about a four foot deep by 3 foot wide trench that extends about 55 linear feet around three walls of the house.

Here are some observations from doing the work:

- the BX is "capable" if digging down to 6 feet. this isn't a practical depth however because you would have to move the tractor ever linear foot or so to keep your depth and to keep the spoils pile from growing too high. it also takes longer to dig because you are waiting for the hoe arms to move from a close in curled position down in the hole to a fully opened extended position all the way up at the top of the pile.
- the hoe definitely has more lifting power than the front loader, but this rapidly goes away when the stabilizing feet are raised. i has able to lift the whole front of the tractor and loader when digging out the large rock in the pictures. once i got it loose, i could have lifted it and pulled it out by driving forward if i had more weight in the front bucket. i ended up just strapping it to the front of the tractor and pulling it out backwards. i hit the HST pressure release several times, but once it was out, it was easy to push it around the yard with the loader.
- you can pick up large rocks and move them to the top of the spoils pile with the hoe bucket where they promptly roll down and crash into the stabilizer hydraulics. this happened several times. i think pitting of the hydraulic ram probably is not a good thing, so it would be nice to avoid this if possible.
- it gets pretty warm in the backhoe seat due to the hydrostat cooling fan blowing over the hot hydraulics and the warm air coming out the back of the tractor and up around the operator. never noticed this before when performing other operations like mowing, moving dirt, etc. think i'm bring the ol' DC cigarette lighter fan next time around!
- there is some strategy involved in where to dig first. it's easy to dig a hole where you need to place the tractor later to reach the spots you need to reach.

I'm at the point in the project where the digging is done. I have power washed and cleaned and etched the foundation. Tomorrow I'm painting it with rubberized asphalt coating. I'll cover that with 6 mil black poly plastic and then cover that with 1.5" blue EPS foam for insulation and to protect the plastic from damage by the backfill. I'll flash the top of the foam so water will shed away from the wall.

Down in the bottom of the trench I'll install 4" perf pipe all along the base of the foundation. The perf pipe will have several cleanouts and will gravity drain about 80 feet away to a ditch in the driveway. I'll wrap the perf pipe with landscaping fabric to keep it from silting up and if it does get clogged, I'll have the cleanouts to blast water down through it. Then, I'll backfill against the blue EPS with the original material minus the large rocks I'll remove by hand. It was pretty much sandy gravel with very little clay, so it should drain down to the pipe pretty well.

Finally, I'll be installing downspout extenders to get the roof rain at least 10 feet out into the lawn and make sure the grade drains away from the foundations. I may have to do a little tilling to shave off a few inches and get a good flow away from the house. I'll treat the top 12 inchs of backfill for termites and then build a flower bed all around the perimeter with a white rock mulch to keep mud from splashing up on the windows and decorative wall rock.

That's pretty much the project. It's a big one. I think I have at least 3-4 more days to finish up if the weather holds.

If you've read this far, here's my question:

The original perf pipe was installed with the holes pointing downward. Is this correct? I am planning to have the black plastic go under the new pipe, so I'm thinking I'll be ok with the holes pointing up since they will be covered with landscaping fabric. The holes on the top of the pipe will still be several inches below the floor level of the slab, so the water shouldn't be able to build up anywhere near the seam where the walls join the floor.

I would appreciate any advice or thoughts on how to make this a successful project for my mom. I've already learned a lot.

The best part? Besides all the practice and seat time, all that digging used only a half tank of fuel. That's 10 hours of run time on about 3 gallons. I ran the engine around 2400 rpm during all the digging.

Thanks in advance and enjoy the pics!

amp

 

[Defective]

Only two suggestions I can think of...

Put the holes down. water will enter the pipe whatever way the holes point and if they're down, it's that much more protection from silt.

Put a bed of gravel over the pipe. This will also help avoid silting. It will also help the water to flow freely into the pipe.

Actually...a third suggestion...

A layer of clay near the surface will help to keep water away from the foundation in the first place.

I've used all three of these methods in past and none of the basements I've worked on have had water problems since.

 

[Dmace]

I am impressed what that little Kubota did, that is a good sized project for a SCUT. That is a pretty large rock too!

As far as the drain pipe, keep the holes UP. If you put the holes down the water will just drain right next to the foundation and that is the opposite of what that pipe is for. Also, keep any clay as far from the foundation as possible, it will just keep the surface water near the top soil and the ground will saturate faster and you will have more runoff problems.

If you plan on reusing the pipe, try and remove it so you can flush it out and make sure it is not clogged. The big concern is finding the drain pipe outlet and getting that cleared out as well. The foundation drains will do nothing if there is no drain outlet for the water to go. Make sure the outlet is at a good angle, 1/4" per foot or more and that the pipe is as big or bigger than the drain pipes. A good layer of 2" rock over the drain pipe will help with sediment clogging the holes too.

 

[Kays Supply]

In my area, they install a very thick plastic membrane with " bumps" on it. It is sealed at joints and and has a rail around the top , again sealed. The "bumps" hold it about 1/2" off the wall. They also put holes down on pipe.. Some put a layer of cloth or straw on top of the gravel before dirt.

 

[Kays Supply]

I found this.

 

[atgreene]

Holes go down on drain pipe, otherwise you will need 3-4" of wwater to build-up before it will enter the pipe and silt will be an issue. No matter what you do, some silt will get in there. Be sure the pipe is well below the level of the floor. Most of the pipes I install we keep the pipe at the level of the bottom of the footing. That means the pipe is 8-12" below the top of the floor. Water doesn't usually flow up-hill, so the lower you keep it the lower you keep the water table around the foundation.

Backfill the pipe with about 8-12" of crushed stone. 3/4" crushed stone is what I normally use as it's easier to shovel than 1 1/2" stone. Then cover the stone with a GOOD quality filter fabric. I usually use hay, but fabric is better.

Make sure wherever you run the pipe you have it well maked and well above any other water as you do not want water backing up the pipe. Also, be sure to put a screen over the end of the pipe to prevent critters from making a home.

If you can seal any cracks with waterplug or some other concrete patching material.

I would re-seal the wall with tar if possible. I've never had any issues with the tar sealing the concrete and I've done well over 100 foundations. Ideally you'd snap the ties (metal pieces that stick out of the wall after it's poured) then seal the ties with waterplug, then tar.

You're on the right track, good luck.

 

[LBrown59]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ement-waterproofing-bx-questions-img_0905.jpg

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[MarkV]

I am with the group that says holes go down on any perforated pipe. They also make a soil sock for the 4” pipe that offers better protection from silt build up than trying to wrap with landscape fabric, it is easier to use also. The box stores normally carry and stock the sock in the same area as the pipe is sold. Gravel over the pipe is a good idea and if you want to add an extra layer of protection put your landscape fabric over the gravel before backfilling.

Nice job and I am also impressed with how well the BX handled it.

MarkV

 

[ampsucker]

hey, thanks for all the great replies!

sounds like the general trend so far is for the holes to point down. this is against my ituition, but i guess i'll have to bow to the experience of others who have gone this way before. i guess i'll have to put a layer of clean rock down under the pipe to make sure the holes get good exposure and don't press down into the mud. i'll still wrap with landscaping fabric, too.

markv, i did see the socks at our lowe's store, but i have a large amount of landscaping fabric to use up. i'll just wrap each pipe (there are only 6 perf pipes) and hold it in place with black plastic tie straps.


atgreen, i do have an ideal place for the pipe to drain. it goes under the driveway into an existing ditch with a good slope - no way for water to back uphill into the pipe. i already have the little end cap to keep critters from crawling up in there. learned that lesson long ago! as far as cracks go, the only two i found were really hard to see. i bought quick set up hydraulic cemen t thinking i would find some big, gaping holes or large cracks but so far only some hairline ones along the pour joints. i hesitate to chisel them out and make them larger. do you think this is important or should i just let the blackjack rubberized asphaltdo its thing?

kays supply, i wanted to find something good like that, but after searching on the internet for several hours, couldn't find a decent system available in our area. we pretty much have lowes/homedepot/plumbing supply places/hardware stores, etc. i just had to make do the old school way....

dmace, the old pipe is history. it was pretty brittle - i could hear it crunching when the hoe would find it - so i am just replacing it totatally with new. we never found the outlets to it in all the years we've lived here, so i'm thinking we won't find them now!

defective, i too considered packing clay around the outside to help shed water. i considered a lot of ways to do this to make it easier. but, i think the main thing that's going to help us is to have a fully functioning drain pipe to carry ground water away from the foundation before it can build up enough to find any cracks or holes. for that pipe to be effective, i think the groiund above it needs to be permeable, which means clay is out. plus, our clay shrinks alot when it dries out, so it will be a thick gooey mess when wet, then have large, deep cracks in it when dry, so i don't see it as being effective for this project. now a pond or someplace that stays moist all the time, that's a different story.

thanks to all for the advice! keep it coming. i'm headed out now to paint black asphalt and seal cracks.....

amp

 

[ray66v]

I have done basement waterproofing jobs professionally and never had a a failure.

Dig deep enough that you can make a bed of stone for the pipe and still be below the base of the wall.

Place the pipe in a bed of washed 3/4" gravel. The Pipe should be installed holes down and the fabric sock covering is a good idea. Washed gravel is important, and commercially available, because the lime dust and screenings will settle at the bottom and form a type of cement. In some cases I have found this to be completely sealing the drain tile from getting any water.

If you want to use a lot of tar, (aprox. 1 gal for every 20-25 sq ft.), clean the wall, tar it, and put heavy mill visquine over the tar. Do not leave any part of the visquine exposed to sun light. Sunlight breaks it down.

If you don't plan on using more than a thin coat of tar don't use any plastic. Reason: Plastic will not stick well, and water will get trapped between the plastic and the wall resulting in a leak.

Back fill all the way to the top around windows and with in 12" of the top else where. This requires the hole to be dug carefully, or go broke buying stone.

Put fabric on top of stone, and use dirt to finish the top grade. slope the dirt away from the house.

The stone running up to the top, will prevent any water pressure from developing, and as long as the tile carries away the water, the basement can NEVER leak.