Plastic pipe for underground?

   / Plastic pipe for underground? #21  
On my freeze hydrants (faucets with valve underground and self draining standpipe), I use double street elbow in addition to the T, that gives me a place for movement if needed without breaking the T or the underground pipe... Most of the galvanized plumbing is coming from China and does not stand up like the older USA stuff. I have been told that if you can find USA galvanized, it will hold up better. I don't know if it was just talk or not, but I couldn't find any anyway.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #22  
Thanks!

I found a chart that relates pipe size/volume:
GPM/GPH Flow based on PVC Pipe Size, ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

According to the chart, it looks like given ideal conditions a short 3/4" outlet pipe (rated 36gpm max, 23gpm preferred) would pass the full output of the well pump - whatever that is. Then size up from there considering friction loss due to length and fittings. So I don't need to go back to the 1.5" size that I'm replacing. Maybe 1.25" for the longer runs, so a big Rainbird sprinkler can have good volume out at the end of the line.

No you really want to be in the green range on the higher GPM side. If your pump is 10-15 GPM then you want to be on at least a 1" pipe. This is to keep the speed of the water down and avoid water hammer when opening/closing valves and the pump kicking on/off. Next is to look at pressure drop through your whole system which is what you looked at here:

The chart linked above also references a chart for length/loss that indicates the Rainbird 100 ft out would receive 10~20 psi less than at the well. This seems acceptable.

Often the cost of going the next size up pipe is minimal and then is already in place for any future expansion plans or if you upgrade your pump.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #23  
Thanks!

I found a chart that relates pipe size/volume:
GPM/GPH Flow based on PVC Pipe Size, ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

According to the chart, it looks like given ideal conditions a short 3/4" outlet pipe (rated 36gpm max, 23gpm preferred) would pass the full output of the well pump - whatever that is. Then size up from there considering friction loss due to length and fittings. So I don't need to go back to the 1.5" size that I'm replacing. Maybe 1.25" for the longer runs, so a big Rainbird sprinkler can have good volume out at the end of the line.

The chart linked above also references a chart for length/loss that indicates the Rainbird 100 ft out would receive 10~20 psi less than at the well. This seems acceptable.

I like the idea of trenching with a ripper or potato plow. But where I need to make the first repairs, only my backhoe's boom can fit in there.

*arghs* i hate charts like that. they can easily mis lead someone to getting to small or to large of a pipe. "been there done that" it doesn't matter of pool, pond, well, or other, i simply hate charts found on the internet.

old calc i did up years back. to ball park things out for ponds for pipe sizing.
WorldWide Koi Club - Pipe Sizing ( advance velocity ) calc
entering in first 3 boxes...
50
50
200

entering in next row of boxes.
0.50, 0.75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 2

clicking "calc" button

green P = pressurized flow of water. (example water coming from well pump)
green G = gravity flow of water. you pump water up to some tank up high on a hill. and letting water just empty out of a tank some place down the hill without use of a pump between tank and outlet for the water.

very bottom you can adjust min/max settings for P and G in how they show up for "green" in the chart.

===========
1" to 1.5" pipe size is what i would be looking at. based purely on velocity alone and inside diameter of pipes and fittings.

to figure things out better. it normally takes an excel sheet, and knowing all the lengths of hose and pipes, and were each fitting and type of fitting it is and the "actual" inside diameter of pipe/hose and/or fittings. we say 3/4" or 1" etc.. but actual inside diameter is less on pvc pipe, and can be mis leading on hoses pending if you look at outside daimeter vs inside diameter of the pipe. then calculating at different GPM (gallons per minute) or hour. and plotting results on the "pumps performance curve chart" to get a more accurate estimated flow rate you would get at any given outlet (faucet or like)

a pumps performance curve... the more the pump has to overcome in friction loss. the less GPM it will produce overall. the less friction loss a pump has to overcome the more GPM it will produce.

===========
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it has been way to long since i had to figure the math out. and done forget, water hammering velocity, i think you want to stay below 15 feet per second, or is it 8 or 9 feet per second (F/S)
i want to say you want to stay above 4 feet per second velocity, to clear any sort of air bubbles that may happen within a line. or is it 7 feet per second?
ya don't take above numbers as fact. "memory is trashed" on all the fine detail specifics.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #25  
Really need to figure out pump flow. My 2 horse power pump is on a 30 amp breaker and rated at 40 gpm. Also it's installed on a 2 inch line.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #26  
Really need to figure out pump flow. My 2 horse power pump is on a 30 amp breaker and rated at 40 gpm. Also it's installed on a 2 inch line.

I agree, probably best to do some GPM testing with a 5 gallon bucket and stop watch.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #27  
if you know the well driller, give them a call they are suppose to keep records. if anything pull the pump up out of the well and find the model / manufacture, and look up spec's online majority of manufactures have most of the info online now.

5 gallon bucket test is simple method. but make sure it is actually 5 gallons, and not 4.85 gallons or 4.68 gallons. and remember 5 gallon bucket test is a ball park figure.
also make sure you let the well tank "pressure tank" go down, say run water for 5 to 10 minutes fully open with OUT a garden hose nozzle on.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground?
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Ok, this pump is so old (1991) that its specs aren't listed online. According to the warranty doc I found in the barn, it is:

Goulds model 13EM10.

Closest match I can find in Goulds' online docs is GS series started in 2003:

Goulds model 13GS series specs:
GPM 4~20, HP 0.5~5, Best efficiency GPM: 13, GPM Discharge diameter 1.25".

And model 13GS10 is the 1 HP member of that series. So assuming their prefix and suffix #s from 2003 are consistent with earlier models, I have a pump rated less than 20 GPM. Maybe 10 GPM, interpolating 1 HP into the data above.

==========

Conclusion from all that: the pump output is 1.25" diameter, and 1.25" 200 psi HDPE pipe should be sufficient for the separate lines from the pumphouse to the house, barn (washing machine), and garden. The outlet for filling my watering trailer will be larger and will be at the pumphouse.
 
   / Plastic pipe for underground? #29  
Call goulds customer support they should be able to tell you the specs. Maybe able to email them also
 

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