Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines

   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #61  
The ribbon heater isn’t for starting just for emissions reduction while cold. Crank time is longer on HPCR because the injection pump needs some speed to develop the pressure.
At the time you turn the ignition key to the ON position the PCM/ECM looks at the IAT temperature and determines if the manifold is cold enough to need pre-heating. Typically this occurs when temperatures are below 55-65*F. You'll notice that the battery voltage will fall slightly more than normal during this time that the WAIT TO START light is lit. Once started the grid heater will continue to cycle on and off to maintain proper manifold temperature. There are 2 grid heater elements. The PCM/ECM will determine if one or both elements will be used.
Here are the times and temperatures you should see.

Intake Manifold Temperature Key ON position
Pre-Heat Cycle Time
Ignition ON, Engine NOT Running
Post-Heat Cycle
Ignition ON Engine Running
Above 59F (15C)
0 Seconds
No
15F to 59F (-10C to 15C)
10 Seconds
Yes
0F to 15F (-18C to -10C)
15 Seconds
Yes
Below 0F (-18C)
30 Seconds
Yes
When temperatures are below 0*F it’s suggested to cycle the grid heater twice to help aid in starting. Block Heater use can offset intake temperatures, since the block will warm incoming air.

Grid Heater(s) - Power Requirement



1 Element
2 Elements
95 Amps
190 Amps
1140 Watts
2280 Watts
Starter – Power Requirement
350-700 Amps
(Depends on temperature and oil viscosity)
Alternator Output
120 Amps

As in anytime you start the vehicle and grid heaters are active it will take longer to recharge the batteries. So be sure to run the engine longer to ensure the batteries are charged back up. Typically about 10-15 miles is a enough distance to re-charge the batteries in arctic cold temperatures.

Both grids on will provide a heating temperature of 500F as proved in the video.


When the grids are running, you can tell when both or just one grid is running. You hook a voltmeter up to any point on the truck and measure exact voltage. In the video, you can see voltage drops to 11.75V, indicating that both grids are running. When the voltage slightly releases to 12.20V, one of the grids has stepped out. That grid then also steps out and regular charging voltage of over 13V is seen. Only one grid heater is needed after the initial dual grip operation to keep intake temperature up, so then you can see only one grid turning on and off with every time it drops to 12.4V.

Driving at low speeds can make the grid heater stay on seemingly endlessly as the cold air is driven into the engine at a high rate with the grids failing to heat it up to the temperature that the grids turn back off. You have to get the RPM and engine load just right, it also has to be during the state that you haven’t turned the grid cycling phase off (going over 20mph). Basically, you might be going 15mph up a hill and the grid will cycle on and instead of turning off the next second like normal, the threshold temp is never met and the grid will stay on for a seemingly endless time. Like I said, the conditions have to be perfect in order for it to do it. Just an interesting tidbit.. It is surely hard on the alternator and batteries.


The grid heaters will then shut down when you go over about 20mph, retain sufficient intake temperatures, or shut the engine back off. The grids typically run about 3 minutes while idling, cycling on and off to maintain temperature, and finally canceling the cycles.

Grid Relays



There are 2 grid relays, one for each grid heater. Each are ran by the ECM individually. The green wire on each of them is ground. The yellow and red wires are for each unique relay and serve as the positive lead that goes to the ECM. Upon being sent positive voltage, the relay energizes and the grid heater turns on.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #62  
All is still for reducing emissions. I have some Cummins units with grid heaters removed and dual air intake. They start instantly. The engine is used in other applications like crawlers and loaders before the were used in trucks and emissions weren’t of concern. They don’t have the heaters or an ECM. The 5.9 Cummins was a consolidated design with Case and Cummins.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #63  
I know someone here can help me with this question. Maybe the question should be spark ignition versus compression ignition, but I will just use gasoline spark ignition vs diesel compression ignition. Anyway, gasoline engines are very sensitive to air/fuel ratios. For example, gasoline engines when run too lean can run way too hot and this can result in pre-ignition, burnt valves, and melted pistons. I have personal experience with a melted piston crown, darn it. So the air/fuel mixture is closely controlled. Diesel engines don't control the air at all, the engines are always sucking in as much air as possible. This means that the air/fuel mixture is all over the place. So why is it that a compression ignition diesel engine can tolerate the very lean condition at low throttle settings? And, from what I have read here, diesel engines run hotter at higher throttle settings and running them at too low of a throttle setting, such as excessive idling, can cause problems such as "wet stacking". The reason being that the engine is running too cool and all the fuel is not burning completely. It's just idle curiosity on my part and I figure a good answer is likely to be found here.
Thanks,
Eric
To answer the title question, diesel engines have a much higher thermal efficiency, around 20% better than the spark ignition system used by gas engines. This translates into more power and torque. This efficiency increases with load which is typically at a higher speed.

Air intake is not the same as gas engines which introduce a mixture of fuel and air during the intake stroke.

In a diesel, air is only drawn in during the intake stroke, and the fuel is admitted during the compression stroke when the act of compression has caused the air to be super-heated which ignites the fuel.

This super-heated air is why diesels don't have spark plugs and are the reason some direct-injected diesel engines don’t even require glow plugs to start.

The correct fuel-air ratio will be maintained by the engine itself, as long as there is plenty of air available. Too little air (or too much fuel) means black smoke.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #64  
All is still for reducing emissions. I have some Cummins units with grid heaters removed and dual air intake. They start instantly. The engine is used in other applications like crawlers and loaders before the were used in trucks and emissions weren’t of concern. They don’t have the heaters or an ECM. The 5.9 Cummins was a consolidated design with Case and Cummins.
They don't always start instantly in sub zero temps. Ones without ECM's are not HPCR. But yes I agree the primary reason for the grid heater is emissions. A lot of performance guys remove the grid for better air flow.
The blanket statement "All is still for reducing emissions" is simply incorrect.
Read through the responses in this forum.
 
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   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #65  
Now, the injection system for fuel times the combustion event for optimum power based on RPMs, throttle input, or computer depending on the fuel system.

I agree to a point with what you said but also beg to differ, for example, take the OLD 2 stroke Detroit Diesel, it uses the camshaft to operate the injector, timing didn't change only thing that changed was the amount of air (obviously) and amount of fuel injected which was controlled by the rack and governor.

You ain't lived until you have climbed on top of a screaming run away 12V71 to shut it down because one injector failed in the WOT position (only position I ever saw them fail) and some idiot didn't bother to reconnect the emergency shutdown.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #66  
They don't always start instantly in sub zero temps. Ones without ECM's are not HPCR. But yes I agree the primary reason for the grid heater is emissions. A lot of performance guys remove the grid for better air flow.
The blanket statement "All is still for reducing emissions" is simply incorrect.
Read through the responses in this forum.
I can tell you a lot more about these engines than you will read in these forums, i started in the engine rebuild business in 1972. I have owned numerous engines as well. You will encounter a lot things in life when you are told or recommended one thing but there is actually another underlying reason. It’s called duping.
Also the grid heaters were used in non HPCR versons that still cycle on and off after starting without a computer. But still for the same reason. They just didn’t have as many parameters.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #67  
I can tell you a lot more about these engines than you will read in these forums, i started in the engine rebuild business in 1972. I have owned numerous engines as well. You will encounter a lot things in life when you are told or recommended one thing but there is actually another underlying reason. It’s called duping.
Also the grid heaters were used in non HPCR versons that still cycle on and off after starting without a computer. But still for the same reason. They just didn’t have as many parameters.
You ain't as smart as you tell yourself. That is a fact. The comments on that thread aren't what we are being told. It's actual experiences from people other than you.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #68  
I agree to a point with what you said but also beg to differ, for example, take the OLD 2 stroke Detroit Diesel, it uses the camshaft to operate the injector, timing didn't change only thing that changed was the amount of air (obviously) and amount of fuel injected which was controlled by the rack and governor.

You ain't lived until you have climbed on top of a screaming run away 12V71 to shut it down because one injector failed in the WOT position (only position I ever saw them fail) and some idiot didn't bother to reconnect the emergency shutdown.
IT takes more than a shop rag ! They go through the blower just as fast as you can get them near.
A good sturdy work coat stuffed in the inlet will do the job though ;-)

Don't ask me how I know this ;-)
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #69  
a lengthily post. for simplicity, can you reduce your question to a sentence or two? regards
"So why is it that a compression ignition diesel engine can tolerate the very lean condition at low throttle settings?"
Was what I read.
 
   / Please explain this difference between diesel and gasoline engines #70  
It's all about the fuel! More energy content in diesel- energy density; takes a different approach to utilize. Diesel being oil-based is less corrosive- easier on metals. Higher compressive forces, however, means that crank, pistons rods etc HAVE to be more robust than their gasoline counterparts: this level gets bumped up when adding turbo-charging. Heavier stuff will require more energy to move around in which case the advantage is reduced (it'll take a lot of long math to figure out by how much).

I've gotten 820 miles on a tank of diesel in one of my cars (roughly 15 gallon tank). NOT going to be able to do that with gasoline (alone- hybrid is even iffy).

I am not comfortable storing volumes of gasoline. Advantage diesel.
 
 
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