Please help, my tractor won't start!

DJ54 · Jan 6, 2010

If your ammeter works/has been working, see if it is charging. If not, you may want to check the belt tension on the generator.. On my Super C, it has to be just pretty snug. Just because it's turning, doesn't mean it's putting out enough to keep the battery charged, plus supply the ignition system. I have experienced the same thing you described before, now that I thought about it. Starts blubbering..., look down and no charging.. All but 1 time, the belt needed snugged.

And/or your battery may be getting tired. But does sound like it will hold a charge somewhat..., at least for a little while.

If the belt is good and tight, then it could be the voltage regulator, or generator itself. If you have a tester, you can check it for output. If not, hope you have a good starter/generator repair shop close like I do. They can bench test and tell you in just a few seconds.

Just picked up a starter for my BN Farmall, from said shop. New bearings, brushes, etc, Cleaned up the armature on the lathe.. $79.00, with a 1 year guarantee. Not bad in my book..

But, geeze, you'd think it would have lasted longer than it did... The original starter, and it's only a 1947 model... Go figure...

Harley T · Jan 6, 2010

OK, got home today, took the tarp and battery charger off, and it started right up. Better than it ever has.

Only let it run for a couple of minutes, then backed it into the garage for now. Wasn't going to wait to see if she crapped out again.

Since the points/condenser/rotor/cap kit only costs 20 bux or so, I'm gonna go ahead and change them anyway. They won't be in until tomorrow or the day after. In the meantime, I'm gonna switch out the battery with one that I know is good, and see how she runs. Also gonna make sure the belt is tight enough. Again, I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again for all the responses. You have all been a great help.

Harley

Scotty370 · Jan 6, 2010

I'd be getting that Battery load tested. My thought is that the alternator is trying to charge a very, very marginal battery. It's probably providing enough "juice" to the coil to get it to fire. When your under load, the alternator output is lessened, because your RPM's are dropping off, and you drop below the 'threshold-voltage' necessary to fire the coil! Just a thought........ ~Scotty

Jimmy Joe · Jan 6, 2010

We had the exact same tractor on the farm, it was spitting and sputtering. Turned out the wires were loose on the voltage reduction resistor.

g82263 · Jan 6, 2010

im thinking your problem is in the fuel system. when the tractor sets, the fuel bowl fills with gas. it starts and runs fine. you would be supprised how long they will run with the gas that is in the fuel bowl. anyway, it sounds like it running out of gas either from a restricticted fuel filter or junk in the tank. i would change the filter and maybe blow back through the tank. lack of fuel will cause all your symptoms.

Harley T · Jan 7, 2010

Thanks again for more responses.

Well, I got antsy last night, and without doing ANYTHING to the tractor, started her up again. Let it run for a few minutes, then took it out to try moving some snow banks to put the engine under some load. It ran just fine. However, I only did that for about 5 minutes, because I didn't want it to die in the middle of the yard. Backed it back into the garage awaiting the points/condenser/rotor/cap kit. That should be here today or tomorrow. When I pick that up, I'm gonna take the battery with me and have it load tested. Also, when I remove the battery, I'm gonna make sure the belt on the alternator is tight. Thanks for all the ideas. You have all been quite helpful. Again, I will keep you posted.

Harley

Soundguy · Jan 7, 2010

I'd still double check all wires and connections.. and pull the fuel line and check flow.. if the carb has a drain in the bowl.. check there as well. ( not sure what carb that thing uses.. etc.. )

soundguy

Harley T · Jan 8, 2010

OK, last night I went out and checked a couple of things out. The alternator belt was quite loose. The owner's manual says 1/4 in of "play" in it. So, I tightened that up and started the engine. Started ok, and let it run for a few minutes.

Then turned it off and let it sit for an hour or so. Started it up again, and brought it out to see how she did. What I DID notice, for the first time, was the voltmeter on the dash. At initial start up, the volt meter was pushing 16V. Soon, however, it was 15, then 14 1/2. When it got under 14, the tractor started slowing down. So now I figure I've got this narrowed down to 1 of 3 things. Either the battery won't hold a charge, the alternator isn't charging it, or the voltage regulator is shot.

I bought a battery charger/starter/tester the other day. With this, I can check the battery and the alternator. If they both test OK, I'm buying a voltage regulator. After I thought about this, I had the exact same problem with a 1969 Dodge Dart I owned back in High School. LOL

Thanks again for all the responses and suggestions. I will let you all know how I make out.

Harley

Soundguy · Jan 8, 2010

By the way.. i know you keep saying alternator.. but does this machine really have an alternator.. or does it have a generator like most ALL other 50's era machines did?

if it does have a genny.. it's REAL easy to test the genny with a full field and motor test.. and you can test the vreg to using the full field and cutout bypass tests.

takes like 5 minutes.... ez as pi

soundguy

Harley T · Jan 8, 2010

Sorry, my bad. It is a generator. Keep saying alternator, just outta habit, though.

I'm planning on testing them with the charger I bought a few days ago. "Full field and motor test?" Could you explain a little more? TIA

Harley

Diamondpilot · Jan 8, 2010

Sound Guy can talk you through these old tractors but since its a 12 volt system just junk the Genny and Voltage Regulator and spend $60 and get a 1 wire 10 or 12 SI GM alternator and install. Any auto parts store will have them. It will put out about 65 amps, 5 times what you need on a tractor. Just one wire to hook up to the positive post of the battery and you will now have a moderns system that is trouble free for the most part. 1000's of old machines have had this done.

Chris

Soundguy · Jan 8, 2010

you can make a genny spin like a motor by applying power to it's armature and ground, and then biasing it's field depending on field circuit type. B circuit gennies like power to the field.. a circuit gennies like ground on the field... I'd suspect that unit is a circuit... got to slip the belt off.. if genny spins on a motor test.. they -usually- will charge. A full field test is during operation, and you essentially power or ground the field, depending on field circuit type.. thus making the unit deliver full charge.. this will tell you if the reg is working.. IE.. no charge normally.. but full field makes a charge.. then field ckt in reg is bad. can also bypass the cutout in the reg and jumper bat to arm during the fld ckt test.. this will tell you if the cutout is open etc...

5 minute test.. tells you if your genny will charge and if the reg is good.

a ckt regs have a bias resistor from grnd to fld on the underside of the can.. b ckt regs have a bias resistor from arm to fld on the underside of the can... may be more resistors present as well. If it has never charged.. might be wrong vreg..

soundguy

Harley T · Jan 9, 2010

My tractor is FIXED!!!!

Thanks for the help, soundguy. However, like diamondpilot suggested, someone had ALREADY swapped out the generator and vreg for a GM alternator. Mine turned out to be off and old Chevy. LOL

Last night, I hooked up my tester to the tractor. The battery % started around 85, but slowly dripped lower. The alternator % was -0-. Today, I took the alternator to the auto parts store and tested it on their machine. They told me it was pretty low, the problem was probably in the voltage regulator. Had to scrape a lotta grime off of it to get the part number, but eventually found it. $35 bux for a brand new one. Came home, put it on, plugged it in, and the battery % quickly went from 74% to 100%. The alternator % is 160.

Problem solved. Thanks again to everyone for your help. I hope I can return the favor sometime.

Harley

Soundguy · Jan 9, 2010

was this an old external reg model.. perhaps like a 10dn or similar?

soundguy

Harley T · Jan 11, 2010

<<was this an old external reg model.. perhaps like a 10dn or similar?>>

Don't know if you're talking about the tractor or the alternator. The tractor is supposed to have a generator and separate external vreg. The alternator I took off had the vreg in it.

The test at the auto parts store said the alternator was low, the problem is probably the vreg inside it.

Turns out, the battery is bad, too. Won't hold a charge. After I get it running, the battery % rips up to 100. However, after a couple of hours, it's back to only 60% or so. Gonna replace that today.

Harley

Soundguy · Jan 11, 2010

A 10dn is a delco alternator... has an external regulator.

soundguy

Harley T · Jan 11, 2010

It was a delco alternator, but the vreg was inside.

Soundguy · Jan 11, 2010

sounds like a 10si then.

soundguy

Goodmechanic · Jan 14, 2010

There should not be a spark that jumps the points when they are opened. You may sometimes get a little contact flash when they open, but never a spark. A spark across the open points is a contiunation of current flow and a good indicator for a bad condensor. Replacing the spark plugs was a good idea as new plugs would allow an already poorly operating ignition system to fire slightly better. This may sound silly, but I've seen it before, make sure your fuel petcock is open fully and not plugged. A running engine will drain a carburetor if the fuel flow is restricted and give the same symtoms. Letting the tractor sit to go get spark plugs would give the carb time to refill. Just a couple of things to check.