Plow depth and EPA

[oldnslo]

Pherron,
Unfortunately over time buried items seem to work their way to the surface. We buried a couple of rock piles 6 - 7 ft deep and approx 7 - 8 years later some of those rocks had worked their way back to the surface. Same reason you have to pick rocks out of a field year after year. Rocks and weeds are the only guaranteed crops no matter what the weather does..

 

[SPYDERLK]

Thanks for your reply. We do have a great lawyer

Do you have a Farm Bureau in NC?

 

[JRoot]

What the EPA is doing has nothing to do with type of plow used or plowing practices, there are many larger issues to be addressed.

Out of curiosity how did the EPA approach your folks regarding this issue? Did you try refusing access at the start?

 

[hunt4570]

YEOWZA.. so sorry to hear about your dilemma.. Seems like something you see on TV, and I think thats exactly what you should do, let someone in the media know, throw a big fuss.. people will come to your rescue I'm sure.

 

[jenkinsph]

Good luck with this endeavor you will need it. Greta Van Susterand (FOX news) would want to hear about this. I am pulling for you, but you need some real help and exposure to deal with the EPA.

Still think this might help.

 

[Sprinklerman]

You may want to look at turning the situation around in your favor , with all the developement in Maryland builders need open space . Basically to get a high density development they have to provide a % of land to offset their developement . It doesnt always need to be at the same place . They pay for this . A civil engineer would have more info .

 

[Oldtink]

I hope the lawyer you have now isn't the same one that did the title search for the property when you bought the farm. The Elkton farm fact sheet claims the current owners, after purchasing it from Triumph Explosives Incorporated in turn leased a portion of the land to Thiokol Corp for rocket motor cleaning and recovery and in the 1980's allowed waste from Galaxy Chemical plant to be stored or disposed of on the farm.
Is any of that true?

 

[Pherron2008]

We saw very small bits and pieces of metal fragments, widely scattered, on occasion. None recognizable.
We had been told that surplus explosive devices were piled in one area, and burned. This area, maybe a quarter of acre, had a number of iron objects. It was called a "firehole", and we were led to believe that all explosives were limited to that area. In fact, it was our first cash crop. When we first moved to the farm in 1948, our Mother, my brother and I (ages 5 (me) and 7 (brother) used hand trowels to dig up these iron objects and put them in boxes. Periodically, Dad would take a load to a scrap iron dealer in Baltimore, 45 miles away.
This went well for some time, until the 2nd time one of these "objects" exploded while the dealer was melting them down. Years later we learned that these iron objects were fuses.
About 11 years ago, we learned from the EPA that there were munitions buried in trenches dug in the fields covering over 40 acres. They said that with our consent, they would clear the farm of all buried explosives AT SUPERFUND EXPENSE. And they did. nearing completion of the clearing operation, they faxed us a letter - just after 5 pm on a Friday advising us of a Federal law called CERCLA, which states that when a contaminated area is cleaned up by the Superfund, then the EPA has the responsibility to seek reimbursement from PRP's, or, Potentially responsible Parties. Definition of a PRP? Includes the owner of the land EVEN THOUGH they didn't participate in the contamination, and even if they didn't know the land was contaminated when it was purchased. Which we didn't. They sent this notice just after business hours on Friday, so when my brother called our contact in EPA back, there was no answer. They had left the office for the weekend. I could go on and on..... This has been hanging over our heads now for over 9 years. It's killing us. They could take everything. Ironically, the EPA is now handling this through (of all things), the "Justice" Department.

 

[Pherron2008]

Our family purchased the farm from an an investment firm: Robinson something. Our parents leased a small ( maybe quarter acre) tract of land to Thiokol Corp for rocket motor testing. Thiokol was located adjacent to the farm, with a creek as the boundary. Once the EPA got involved, Thiokol removed all traces of their operation.

Regarding the Galaxy chemicals, our Dad was asked by the owner of Galaxy, a paint manufacturer, to haul some drums to Baltimore for disposal. When Dad got to Baltimore, the disposal company wouldn't accept the drums. Dad brought them back to Galaxy - who wouldn't take them back either. So, not knowing what else to do, Dad stored them inside a barn, on blocks (I guess Dad didn't know that the approved method of disposal was to bury the material in trenches like the Feds did). When EPA representatives came by the house for another purpose ( I think to ask directions), my parents told them about the drums and asked EPA if they could help dispose of them. The EPA agreed to handle the disposal, and did. No mention was ever made about the family being charged for the disposal until years after the fact, when the EPA hit us with the cost of the buried munitions AND the disposal of the drums. Hope that answers your questions.
Their method of operation was to agree to handle the disposal using Federal dollars, aka Superfund, etc. and then at the end of the cleanup, or years later in the case of the drums, notify us that they were charging us for a substantial amount of the cost.

I hope the lawyer you have now isn't the same one that did the title search for the property when you bought the farm. The Elkton farm fact sheet claims the current owners, after purchasing it from Triumph Explosives Incorporated in turn leased a portion of the land to Thiokol Corp for rocket motor cleaning and recovery and in the 1980's allowed waste from Galaxy Chemical plant to be stored or disposed of on the farm.
Is any of that true?

 

[beesnstuff]

I need some idea of the depth range of a typical farm double bottom plow. The plow would be used to turn a field for prep for planting a crop for corn or hay or grain.
My reason for asking is bizarre, but important. My family owned and operated a dairy farm in Elkton, Md from the mid '40's for about 50 years. Toward the end of that period, the EPA discovered through the review of old documents that at the end of WWll, a large munitions plant adjacent to the farm buried millions of now surplus artillery shells, bullets, hand grenades, etc, on the farm we would be buying in a few years. - all done legally and under the supervision of the War Department.

Our family was totally unaware of this when we bought the farm several years later.

When the. EPA discover this contamination they declared a number of acres as a brownfield, and has spent about $7 million for removing the buried explosives. So far so good.
But then they said that since we were owners of the land, we had to pay for a portion of the cost of the cleanup. One reason given - our plowing had spread the buried munitions around, thus making the cleanup more expensive.

I am questioning this, thinking a plow typically turned soil over to a depth of about a foot or so. That is the reason for my question.
You can find full details at the EPA website under ,"Elkton Firehole".

By the way, if you think the EPA was unfairly billing the family for the cleanup of buried munitions we weren't even aware of, look up CERCLA. They can force participation in the cleanup cost even if the land owner was unaware of the presence of buried contaminants, and didn't even own the property when the contaminants were buried. This was our situation.
Thanks for any input

A typical bottom plow will not go below 8", you can adjust it to run it just to skim 4-5".

Rippers might go to 12-18-24", but you need 35HP+ per ripper tine, depending on subsoil condition.