Dusty
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2000
- Messages
- 1,079
- Tractor
- bx22
If you really want to get exotic, you can silver solder the joints. With the cost of copper piping today, the silver solder will look like a bargain. Dusty
Plumbing Rant
- Thread starter N80
- Start date
- Views: 6941
OP
N80
Super Member
PVC was not an option for me. Even down here in SC it would be a freeze risk in a cabin that goes weeks without use and has no central heat or air.
What is a basin wrench? Is that a big wide wrench what you use to tighten the drain/strainer unit? Or is it like a long necked wrench that is bent at the end for tight places? If it is the latter, I'll buy one when I get the new supply line. I'm pretty sure this won't be the last time anyone will see my legs sticking out from under a sink or behind a toilet.
What is a basin wrench? Is that a big wide wrench what you use to tighten the drain/strainer unit? Or is it like a long necked wrench that is bent at the end for tight places? If it is the latter, I'll buy one when I get the new supply line. I'm pretty sure this won't be the last time anyone will see my legs sticking out from under a sink or behind a toilet.
escavader
Veteran Member
HI,thought id ad my 2 cents.
We built this house in 1991,Where the well pipe comes up ,it is copper,up to the holding tank,and to the first shutoff.The rest of the entire house is pvc.I have NEVER had a leak anywhere with the pvc.I have NEVER had a pvc shut off fail.The water shutoff to the hose has froze numerous times,because i forgot to drain it ,it has 3 ft of pvc running right down the outside wall.IT HAS NEVER BROKE OR FAILED IN ANY WAY.The washing machine feed line in the wall freezes every time it gets -15f In 15 years it has never broke either.
Just recently my water heater failed,and we decided to lift the new one up,so leaks could be detected easier.This involved re plumbing slightly.The pvc looked like the day i put it in inside.As i was filling the tank,i noticed a small drop of water on one of the original copper fittings [i hadnt disturbed this what so ever.I reached up and just touched it easily and it sprung a hole,in which had me running to shut off the pump.When i cut the pipe open to repair i couldnt believe how deteriorated the pipe was [everywhere ]inside
Even the original copper shutoff which never got used wouldnt work.
I changed it all to pvc.In my opinion,which is based on my experiences not a salesmans opinion.PVC is worth its weight in gold.Its easy to use,its inexspensive,IT WITHSTANDS FREEZING[iknow copper would have split],and it stands up to the test of time better than copper.I will always use pvc from this point on whenever i do water installs.Did i mention my wife has been managing ahardware store for22 years and she recommends it too.
ALAN
We built this house in 1991,Where the well pipe comes up ,it is copper,up to the holding tank,and to the first shutoff.The rest of the entire house is pvc.I have NEVER had a leak anywhere with the pvc.I have NEVER had a pvc shut off fail.The water shutoff to the hose has froze numerous times,because i forgot to drain it ,it has 3 ft of pvc running right down the outside wall.IT HAS NEVER BROKE OR FAILED IN ANY WAY.The washing machine feed line in the wall freezes every time it gets -15f In 15 years it has never broke either.
Just recently my water heater failed,and we decided to lift the new one up,so leaks could be detected easier.This involved re plumbing slightly.The pvc looked like the day i put it in inside.As i was filling the tank,i noticed a small drop of water on one of the original copper fittings [i hadnt disturbed this what so ever.I reached up and just touched it easily and it sprung a hole,in which had me running to shut off the pump.When i cut the pipe open to repair i couldnt believe how deteriorated the pipe was [everywhere ]inside
Even the original copper shutoff which never got used wouldnt work.
I changed it all to pvc.In my opinion,which is based on my experiences not a salesmans opinion.PVC is worth its weight in gold.Its easy to use,its inexspensive,IT WITHSTANDS FREEZING[iknow copper would have split],and it stands up to the test of time better than copper.I will always use pvc from this point on whenever i do water installs.Did i mention my wife has been managing ahardware store for22 years and she recommends it too.
ALAN
OP
N80
Super Member
Well, I've seen and repaired busted PVC from ice here in the southern US and in West Virginia where I did some volunteer work. I suspect anything will bust if it gets cold enough. There are claims that PEX can double its size before busting.
BobRip
Elite Member
My hot water healed failed last summer just prior to a three day trip out of town. My wife was a good sport and did without hot water for those three days. When I got back I installed the new one and she said listening to me express myself was worse that not having hot water. The new lead free solder gave me a fit since I have not used it in about 10 years. The first joint leaked and I had to disassemble it, go out side and do some practice joints. Oh well, it probably save a $1000 bucks and the new tank has 2.5 inches of foam insulation and is guaranteed for life. The elements are not, but they are pretty easy to replace.
Ken_CT
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 483
- Location
- CT
- Tractor
- BX23, Hustler Mini Fastrak 42 w/mulch kit, Wheel Horse 14-38XL
To the best of my knowledge, PVC is not approved anywhere for above ground pressure use for potable (drinking) water. CPVC (Chlorinated Polyvinyl chloride) is the approved material. I've heard of PVC being used for cold water in some areas, but never for hot. The 2003 International Plumbing Code book which is used in most states says only CPVC (of the two) for potable water.
There are different weights of copper tube. Many people buy type M for water lines, but this tube is too light weight especially for well water. It will eat through after many years. The proper weight should be type L. HD sells both, and many people save a couple of bucks by purchasing the M tube. But the savings aren't worth the trouble they will have in the future. Type M should only be used for heating, meaning the copper pipes that go to your radiators if you have a boiler, not for the hot water to the faucet. Type K is the heaviest, but is seldom used in residential plumbing because of its high cost.
AquaPex is very good stuff but the 25 year warranty is only good if it is installed by someone licensed by the manufacturer, besides having a plumbing license. Hope this makes helps.
Ken
There are different weights of copper tube. Many people buy type M for water lines, but this tube is too light weight especially for well water. It will eat through after many years. The proper weight should be type L. HD sells both, and many people save a couple of bucks by purchasing the M tube. But the savings aren't worth the trouble they will have in the future. Type M should only be used for heating, meaning the copper pipes that go to your radiators if you have a boiler, not for the hot water to the faucet. Type K is the heaviest, but is seldom used in residential plumbing because of its high cost.
AquaPex is very good stuff but the 25 year warranty is only good if it is installed by someone licensed by the manufacturer, besides having a plumbing license. Hope this makes helps.
Ken
TwinWillows
Gold Member
I also hate plumbing but have had to get good @ it (PVC/CPVC that is) after getting $ shock from a plumber I called out. Our new place is all cpvc so no sweating joints to mess with. Like others, I use the expensive molded cpvc/brass fittings when connecting to something threaded. they just seem to work better than the thrreaded plastic & I don't break them
Westonium
Silver Member
Poly and PEX are just as easy to use as PVC if not easier.
Copper is sturdy stuff, but it conducts heat A LOT better than PVC/PEX/PE/HDPE etc. I think it works better as a radiant pipe than PEX simply because you need way less of it and it simply performs better.
PVC can't be recycled.
PVC tends to get brittle the older it gets.
I've used a lot of PVC, and I've not had it fail much, but if you are in a situation with a lot of bends and lots of glued connections - each connection is a roll of the dice that it will come apart under stress (like the well pump runs a leetly too long one day or something).
Not all PVC is the same. SCH40, SCH80, or CPVC in my book. Using anything thinner is russian plumbing roulette.
My thoughts:
PEX for indoor plumbing on new construction so you can have a nifty "water breaker" box with a home run for every point of use.
POLY for really long supply line runs, sch80 for short runs, sch40 for very short runs.
Copper when you need very rigid pipe or high pressures/hammers/etc and make sure its sweated right.
No steel connected directly to copper. I HATE THAT. The copper dissolves rather quickly that way. grrrrr
Plastic pipes are not self-grounding and introducing them in a house that is otherwise copper might mean additional grounding is required for safe plumbing.
Copper is sturdy stuff, but it conducts heat A LOT better than PVC/PEX/PE/HDPE etc. I think it works better as a radiant pipe than PEX simply because you need way less of it and it simply performs better.
PVC can't be recycled.
PVC tends to get brittle the older it gets.
I've used a lot of PVC, and I've not had it fail much, but if you are in a situation with a lot of bends and lots of glued connections - each connection is a roll of the dice that it will come apart under stress (like the well pump runs a leetly too long one day or something).
Not all PVC is the same. SCH40, SCH80, or CPVC in my book. Using anything thinner is russian plumbing roulette.
My thoughts:
PEX for indoor plumbing on new construction so you can have a nifty "water breaker" box with a home run for every point of use.
POLY for really long supply line runs, sch80 for short runs, sch40 for very short runs.
Copper when you need very rigid pipe or high pressures/hammers/etc and make sure its sweated right.
No steel connected directly to copper. I HATE THAT. The copper dissolves rather quickly that way. grrrrr
Plastic pipes are not self-grounding and introducing them in a house that is otherwise copper might mean additional grounding is required for safe plumbing.
i dont think i understand the safe grounding of pipes thing you mention West.
why do you need to ground your pipes?
when i built this house i used copper for the supply lines and pvc for the drainage lines. the water comes from my well through a black plastic pipe into my basement. sweating copper is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. the most important part is cleaning the pipe and fitting. i had one supply leak after sweating many many many joints in this house and it was very easy to fix.
why do you need to ground your pipes?
when i built this house i used copper for the supply lines and pvc for the drainage lines. the water comes from my well through a black plastic pipe into my basement. sweating copper is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. the most important part is cleaning the pipe and fitting. i had one supply leak after sweating many many many joints in this house and it was very easy to fix.
