Pole Barn Sanity Check

[dmccarty]

Larry,

I have to get permits as well which is one reason I am just going to dig out the holes and fill them with 67 stone. Since I have no idea on when I'll have money to finish the barn, if I got the permits so the piers could be inspected, I would have to keep the permit open year after year until finished. At $50 per year.

The gravel should be here this Friday. Course its supposed to rain off and on all week..... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Eddie,

Point well taken on the dirtwork/foundation. We could have had the container delivered a month ago but I want to get the foundation laid out and built correctly before the container is delivered. And I really don't want to have to enlarge the holes for the piers after the fact since that will be messy and some will have to be done by hand. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

A family friend sells the containers. Tain't never seen it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But it is 24 feet by 8 feet by 8.5 feet tall. It has a roll up door. Since its fiberglass I can cut/drill it with wood tools if I want to add a side door or something else in the future. I don't think its as secure as a steel shipping container but its also lighter. If I had to adjust its position with the tractor I'll have more of a chance since it ways just a tad under 3,000 pounds vs 5,000 pounds for a steel shipping container.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Fungus,

I'm having trouble with the links this am for some reason. I do have a really good book on building pole barns. The one thing it does not cover is piers. The book is all about putting the poles deep into the ground. Which does make a log of sense except for that wood rot thing that I can get over. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[Fungus]

Yeah, that site operates in a secure mode and has an invalid certificate. You can accept it anyways to get in.

Their book covers traditional pole barns; i.e. where the poles are put into the ground. I always thought this was necessary to gain the lateral support.

I think if you plan on setting your poles on concrete pillars you will need some kind of bracing between the poles. This negates one of the benefits the traditional pole barn offers.

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yeah, that site operates in a secure mode and has an invalid certificate. You can accept it anyways to get in.

Their book covers traditional pole barns; i.e. where the poles are put into the ground. I always thought this was necessary to gain the lateral support.

I think if you plan on setting your poles on concrete pillars you will need some kind of bracing between the poles. This negates one of the benefits the traditional pole barn offers.
)</font>

You just use anchor plates to connect the pole to the pier. The pier needs rebar. Will last 50 years plus; around here a lot of folks start having trouble with the pole rotting off at 25 years..... Make the connection between the concrete & pole a good one.

I think this is the thread that mentions the Perma-poles or whatever they are called, made in the Ohio area, Wicks buildings use them. Follow that plan, can build your own.

Not familiar with using a backhoe to dig piers either, I would use a post hole digger, no need for the tubes in many cases. Tho we get into needing the wide foot plate I suppose.

--->Paul

 

[dmccarty]

Fungus,

There are quite a few types of column anchors sold by Simpson that will connect the posts to the piers. They seem to do a good job holding the columns in place. I pretty sure that I'll get tall enough 6x6s/4x6s so that I can get the tractor in the barn with out lowering the ROPS AND allowing me to run a length of 2' plywood as bracing. I'm not sure if I really need to do this since there will be 2x12s running between the columns forming a matrix. I don't think I'll have a problem with racking caused by a weakness in the top of the barn. I'm still concerned about the base though.... But its hard to have two sides of the barn open while being braced....

Later,
Dan

 

[Fungus]

I guess what I’m suggesting is that poles sunk into the ground provide more lateral support and that it’s not equivalent to a pole attached to a pier using one of those connectors.

It would not be wise to take an exiting “pole-barn” design and change it to pier-connector-pole arrangement, IMHO.

You can use this approach as long as there is adequate bracing to support your expected wind loads, and the connectors can safely transfer the load to the pier. The 2X12 girders don’t really help the bracing issue. Plywood attached to form a diaphragm between the poles works, as do diagonals. Wall girts and siding can also be used to provide bracing. It’s hard to say if 2’ of plywood at the top would do it.

Take a closer look at the Simpson literature. Most of the post connectors are only rated for gravity & uplift loads, and they specifically warn against using them on unbraced structures – like a carport.

I would use steel pipe (cheaper than wood in my area) and sink’em into the ground with a concrete collar. Add some girders, trusses, purlins, metal roof and the **** with bracing /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[kevinO]

Here's a question for everybody.

I'm also kicking the tires on putting up a new pole barn and have spent many an hour reading through all of the informative posts on this site RE putting up a barn.

My question is, why is it that many use 6x6 posts on the corners and 4x6 posts for the rest of the load bearing poles?

I would think that the smaller posts should go at the corner, not the "middle" of the load bearing walls that support the trusses.

The reasons for my thinking are:

1) The corner posts are braced better than the "middle" posts. Since the posts are at a corner, they receive lateral bracing from the gable end wall.

2) The corner posts support a smaller roof load. For instance, with 8ft spacing, each of the "middle" poles supports four feet of roof load on each side, for a total of 8 feet of roof load times half the width of the building.

3) For pole barns that have load bearing walls and/or poles on the gable ends and use a gable-end truss, the load on the corner posts is removed even further.

With those factors in mind, I'm trying to decide - should the corner posts be bigger than the middle posts, or in fact, can they actually be the same size, if not smaller?

Kevin

 

[phantom309]

Hi Kevin-

Your points make good sense to me! With the corner posts carrying half the weight (or less if the gable end is load bearing) and having twice the bracing of a middle post, I cannot think of any reason why the corner posts should be heavier than the middle posts.

I'm a half step ahead of you on a pole barn and all of my poles are the same size. In my case, I'm pretty sure that the poles I'm using (3.5 x 3.5 x 3/16" A500 steel tubing) are overkill. One reason I went with the steel is that the 3.5" tubing can easily be hidden in a wall that is framed up with 2x4's. Part of my shop will be "office" space and I didn't want the poles to be visible.

Good luck with your pole barn. Putting the first pole in the ground is the hardest and takes the longest!

Mark

 

[cowboydoc]

I wouldn't go with anything but 6x6's all the way through. We've never built one without 6x6's.